Dragoon Punished at lvl 58 - What needs to be done with Wheeling Thrust

[Ceront]

Well the purpose was to add a random postional to the rotation. Its a gameplay mechanic. The only bad decision about it was to not actually have the random aspect to it at lvl 56.

That, right there, is exactly my issue. All it does is make the combo random, it doesn't add anything of value. It's taking up one of our 5 50-60 new abilities to do the exact same thing as the one before it. It's a waste.

It has nothing to do with the combo not being random at 56, which makes no sense whatsoever by the way. How are they supposed to train us to become accustomed to maintaining Blood of the Dragon if it only procs 50% of the time? That's unrealistic, seeing as when you get both one or the other always procs. That is not the issue here. The issue is the fact that wheeling thrust brings nothing new to the table. It exists merely to bring complexity for complexity's sake, and that's lame.

[SpecialKK]

I'm not claiming of the sort. Just merely stated facts. You have a dps that relies heavier on positions vs 4 positional ws from a drg. Again practice makes perfect. There's just nothing to complain about.

Well as I said, the point was never the "difficulty". It's that the level 58 skill doesn't add anything to the job, not additional reward or different effect, that the level 56 skill doesn't already provide. Aside from making it more difficult.

That is it.

By the way, speaking of fact...DRGs, up until the update (right after NIN came out, so Nov. 2014 or so?), was the whipping boy of positionals. Ask anyone who's been playing DRG since ARR came back, and I don't think anyone will dispute just how badly positionals affected DRG DPS.

So for you to come in and say "don't complain about positionals unless you've played high level MNK", well...its quite frankly not needed. Because we dragoons have been dealing with it since...oh, the very beginning until they decided to make it a tad bit easier.

In fact, to make DRGs jobs easier in regards to positionals, it was changed to make the penalty similar to...you guess it, MNK's.

[SpecialKK]

They were probably purposefully vague about it lol

I'm anxious to get drg leveled and try it out, see how bad or how overblown it is. I don't like that they count them as 2 new skills, certainly they could've come up with something a bit more creative, but whatevs, is what it is.

It is. Honestly, the disappointing fact is, we're not alone in this. Yes, this sucks. But look at the MCN and BRDs, even changes to MNK and NIN.

It just seems like a lot of the new changes, at least so far, seem like they were badly planned and tuned by the devs.

[whiskeybravo]

It is. Honestly, the disappointing fact is, we're not alone in this. Yes, this sucks. But look at the MCN and BRDs, even changes to MNK and NIN.

It just seems like a lot of the new changes, at least so far, seem like they were badly planned and tuned by the devs.

No doubt, I feel really bad for bards. MCH is new (along with the squishy DKN thing) so it could just take a while to for players to optimize, or maybe they wanted the support roles nerfed together. Who knows. The change to sch Lustrate is pretty crappy too, doesn't get buffs from Defiance or Convalescence or fey but suffers penalty from infirmity? Lame, hopefully was just a bug, remnants of the % based heal.

[Tilgung]

I think no one should have a privileged of complaining about the negative of positionals unless they actually lvl up and work hard on mnk just saying. I see the huge penalties of it missing a positional. Practice makes perfect my friends.

Hey, when that single missed randomly proc'd positional on MNK is a 190 potency loss you can ride that high horse all you want.

And you can't practice random. Boss uses a tail cleave and Wheeling Thrust procs? Goodbye 190 potency. Or mess up your Gierskogul/BotD rotation. Or piss off your healers.

[ColdestHeaven]

I didn't read each and every answer here, but...I think the point of the OP was not "omg it's hard" - but "why did you make us unlock a skill solely to increase difficulty of the job". Which is something I wonder as well. It's not about job balance, it's about the feeling of each ability. Sure, old and new classes DO have bigger problems in terms of DPS balance - bugged skills, underpowered stances and so on - but I'd consider this merely feedback. Were it for me, I wouldn't mind putting the random positional requirement on the first skill instead of having to wait for the second, as long as there was some kind of difference in the two abilities.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

OP makes some interesting points. The idea of having skills that provide a reward (as opposed to being a copy of the one that came before it) makes sense. In the spirit of discussion (and as an avid dragoon player pre-expansion) I'll throw some ideas on the table for giggles.

Fang and Claw Additional Effect: Reduces the cooldown of Jump by 50%
*that's probably not balanced but it sounds fun and different*

Fang and Claw Additional Effect: Reduces the Cooldown of Battle Litany by 50%.
*I am no a developer. . . I know nothing of balance.*

[Burningskull]

Personally I don't like any of the DRG skills post 50. I have no clue where to put Battle Litany in my rotation. I end up either not using it or throwing it in if I remember it and there is nothing else to weave into my combos. Not to mention it's on a 3 min timer and only last 15s.

Blood of the Dragon only effects two of your jumps. Which makes Jump great. Spinshatter Dive still sucks under it and why is Dragonfire Dive getting left out again?

Then you have Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust. These two abilities are almost useless when soloing so I don't even bother with them outside of a party. Not to mention it's random which one you get. While it doesn't slow you down that much I have noticed I'm looking at my cross bar more than the mobs now. I would personally like to see the position requirement removed and given a base potency of 230 or 250. As well as have Fang and Claw triggered only by Full Thrust and Wheeling Thrust triggered only by Chaos Thrust. Maybe have them reset the timer on Heavy Thrust and make them 200 base potency.

Then you have Geirskogul (sp). Great ability. 200 potency line AoE but can only be used under Blood of the Dragon and reduces the time remaining on Blood by 10s... so I end up not using this ability so if I get stuck doing mechancis right after I use it my Blood of the Dragon doesn't run out to fast. Id rather see this ability have a 15s cool down and not reduce your Blood of the Dragon by 10s. Or better yet, Have it combo off of Fang and Claw and Wheeling thrust and not reduce the timer.

[SuzakuCMX]

OP makes some interesting points. The idea of having skills that provide a reward (as opposed to being a copy of the one that came before it) makes sense. In the spirit of discussion (and as an avid dragoon player pre-expansion) I'll throw some ideas on the table for giggles.

Fang and Claw Additional Effect: Reduces the cooldown of Jump by 50%
*that's probably not balanced but it sounds fun and different*

Fang and Claw Additional Effect: Reduces the Cooldown of Battle Litany by 50%.
*I am no a developer. . . I know nothing of balance.*

Alternatively you could have one extend the duration of HT and the other extend the duration of PH.

[AniCelestine]

After I got my mnk up I'm getting my drg up and after reading more bout the skills, I kind of feel like I got Heavy Thrusted into my rear on both classe's new skills.

Dragoon with only 3 jump? Is that even a dragoon. I would had wanted to see one new jump.

Imo SE should had put the Claw and Wheeling into same package, at lvl 56 and add a new jump with 90 sec timer cause 30>60>90>120 CD's.

If not new jump then atleast take the random away, one or the other from CT and the one that doesn't proc after CT procs after FT