A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Nightdreamer]

Was Aht Urhgan locked when it came out for FFXI? I remember there being an option to pay 500k gil to get smuggled into the new land. It's been so long since I've played it, but I don't recall anything being locked like Heavensward is.

[Reinha]

No opponents of making story content optional have answered the question "how would it negatively affect you?"

Because there is no answer. They are objectively wrong on this issue.

I answered you multiple pages ago.

The restricted content is story content. If the restriction is lifted, it becomes standalone content with a mild link to the story. The main scenario rewards you with not only the story but also access to items, abilities (flying), mounts (magitek, chocobo), titles and content (dungeons). Being rewarded is a part of what I like about the experience. Removing the reward would make it less enjoyable for me.

In other words, I like attunements because it adds to the reasons for doing the attunement steps.
1) Exploring. Fun on it's own but now it's more fun when there's flying as a reward!
2) Story. Fun on it's own but now it's more fun because I get access to new dungeons while doing it! "Dungeon unlocked - The Aery now accessible" just popped today and I felt like I achieved something. The feeling of achievement and a good story can be combined for extra fun just as it has been in this game so far.
3) Raiding and dungeons. Fun on their own but it's more fun when you get currency, commendations, gear and access to new dungeons/raid wings as a reward for clearing it!

If you make things accessible without the story, a part of the reward is removed from the story and it will be less fun for me. I want to have a gameplay reason for doing the story, just like raiders want to have gear as a reward for doing raids. Savage mode isn't as popular as regular coil because of a simple reason: the rewards are cosmetic. I want the story to continue providing game changing benefits like faster transport, exclusive group content and access to certain areas and classes, because then I will have a lot more fun doing it.

Story mode players shouldn't have to feel that their rewards are worthless just because end game focused players complain. I refuse to think that I've chosen the wrong game for wanting to play a story and quest based MMO with attunements, because this gating element has been present since I started my free trial at level 1. If you claim that no player in the world is in favor of attunements in an MMO, it is you who is objectively wrong.

"Why bother playing a game if you just want a story? Go read a book!" This argument is ridiculous and invalid.

Nice strawman, implying that anyone has admitted to playing just for the story and not also for the MMO gameplay. Of course it's an invalid argument because you made it up lol. People have, however, admitted to playing a story focused game only for the gameplay, so the question made by the person you responded to is perfectly valid and reasonable. I think it's rather ridiculous to ask for this game to be changed, when what you are looking for (no attunements, optional story, good pve) already exists in other games. A good story told via a game is what we have right here, so there's no need read books. "Why bother playing this game if you want a story? Go play a story focused gam... oh wait."

I believe you are not understanding exactly what we are saying, We do NOT want to SKIP the ENTIRETY OF MSQ

I don't think you guys understand that there are a few players in this thread asking precisely that, for example Atrayl on the very same page you posted on. Making the story optional is a very different kind of request than trimming it a little (which I wouldn't mind btw, as long as they don't allow you to skip dungeons or entire patches worth of quests).

[HodgepodgeMcDodge]

Was Aht Urhgan locked when it came out for FFXI? I remember there being an option to pay 500k gil to get smuggled into the new land. It's been so long since I've played it, but I don't recall anything being locked like Heavensward is.

It was a quest that was unlocked around level 30. You either paid the fee, farmed up coffer keys, or farmed up all six sub job items.

[Nightdreamer]

I also found the story to be boring, I came back after a hiatus and was 3 scenarios behind. I found out the expansion would be gated 3 days before the early access, I breezed through the MSQ hitting esc every chance I got, it only got interesting towards the end when I noticed similarities to game of thrones so it slightly peaked my interest. Other than that, I have no idea what's going on, why? because I don't care as much about the story as I do about playing my character and leveling, and raiding, and doing fun stuff, after all, this is a video game and not a book. Give us a good story even if it's short just don't give us all this filler crap run around quest for some tea.

SE should have never entwined access to the new areas with the story. That was a very arrogant move on their part.

[Felis]

"Why bother playing a game if you just want a story? Go read a book!"

"Why playing a (J)RPG if you want a game with no story? Go and play a Jump&Run!"

because I don't care as much about the story as I do about playing my character and leveling, and raiding, and doing fun stuff, after all, this is a video game and not a book.

But JRPGs should be like books, with graphic and many text.
FF XIV is a JRPG first, a MMO second.

[Dante_V]

I'm glad they limited access to the new areas. It's helped congestion which is a god send atm.

Also I can't help but think that if the 50's that are in here complaining were actually doing MSQ instead of writing novels on the forum they'd already be at end game.

[KisaiTenshi]

Exactly what in the MSQ teaches us how to play?

I think they meant the Class/Job storylines.

If the MSQ was optional, what would happen is very simple, you'd get people who feel ripped off for spending 80$ on a game, that can be completed in 2 days. FFXIV has 12 dungeons that take 90 minutes to finish. 12 x 90 = 18 hours. If you just sat outside the dungeon and level grinded until you hit the levelsync point instead of playing the story, of course it would be boring. The MSQ and all the sidequests provide enough experience that you only need to play most of the dungeons once to clear them. People would completely ignore the "hard" dungeons because the game ends at level 50, thus no experience and no point to doing any of them. I need to bring up the point that the level 50 dungeons didn't exist at launch.

HW adds 8 dungeons, that's essentially is 2/3rds of the same amount of release content for 2.0

MSQ-ARR, if you look at the lodestone has 246 possible quests under Seventh Umbral Era, of which all the quests up to level 15 are in triplicate due to the three starting areas. So remove 22 from that number and you get 224. Those are the Main Scenario Quests that get you to the "A Relic Reborn" section. The Seventh Astral Era quests, there's 100, All with NO experience if you played them before HW.

Now look at the Optional quests (443):
121 in Limsa
116 in Gridania
130 in Ul'dah
44 in Cortheas
32 in Mor Dhona

And the class quests, 223 of them. You have to only do one, but if you don't do any, you don't get your level 30 skill for your combat class, nor do you get your "relic" weapon for the crafting classes.

Nothing in the storyline actually requires you to do any crafting, only that you get to a certain level in a combat class to enable it. There is no MSQ storyline tied to crafting. So...

No opponents of making story content optional have answered the question "how would it negatively affect you?"

Because there is no answer. They are objectively wrong on this issue.

No. Anyone asking for this is being an entitled brat who wants everything handed to them without working for it. If someone wants to create a second character and not slog through the storyline again, they do not want it bad enough. There's a Fantasia potion if you just want to change your character's appearance. This isn't other games that have punitive class/race locks.

I'll only give you this. It seems unreasonable to have characters created on the same server and account have the same MSQ lock for HW. One point of view is that maybe the other characters are someones spouse or kids, and you don't want their storyline spoiled by actions taken by the first character. But the other point of view is that "yeah but they probably shoulder surfed that content already", in which I'd suggest taking the approach that a few other games have and simply do a "Is this your first time playing FFXIV?" followed by "Another character on this account has completed 'A Realm Reborn', if you wish to automatically flag the storyline as done on this character, you may do so now. All the storyline quests will be flagged as completed and no experience rewarded. No quest rewards from the storyline will be available."

In which all the 7th Umbral and Astral era quests will be marked as completed, but no experience rewarded. This doesn't accomplish what the OP wants, but it would leave all the level locks in place. (eg level requirements for retainers, dungeons, jobs, etc)

If you answer YES to "first time" it will give you all the level 1 tutorial junk. If you answer "No" it will only mark all the tutorials as completed, specifically the "how to move, speak and emote" ones as well as skipping the opening cutscene. If you answer "I want to mark the storyline complete" to the second question, you still start at level 1, and still have to do the Job storyline(s).

[Nightdreamer]

But JRPGs should be like books, with graphic and many text.
FF XIV is a JRPG first, a MMO second.

If the story was a little more interesting I'd stop and actually read through it. There's a difference between quantity and quality.

[Exotik_Legacy]

MSQ-ARR, if you look at the lodestone has 246 possible quests under Seventh Umbral Era, of which all the quests up to level 15 are in triplicate due to the three starting areas. So remove 22 from that number and you get 224. Those are the Main Scenario Quests that get you to the "A Relic Reborn" section. The Seventh Astral Era quests, there's 100, All with NO experience if you played them before HW.

Explain to me why you think it would be ok for a brand new player to be forced through thee *324* quests to reach heavenward content if they infact purchased heavenward to play 1 of the 3 new classes. As well as forcing them to complete *Primarily 100-150 quests that tie to the actual story and the rest are all fluff when in fact by the time you reach around 180 quests your already level 50 with the current exp increases?

[Luvbunny]

SNIP....

OK, I understand your points. But let's take an example of WoW. When you first play the game, you are level 1, and the only way you can get to level cap, and do all the raids at endgame, is by exploring the land, and DO ALL THE INANE GRINDING QUESTS for all those dumb NPCS everywhere in the over world. Or you can have one of your friend power level you through dungeons while you sit do nothing follow them around collecting loot to sell later. And how is this any different than FF14? Instead of bazillions trillions fetch kill x amount of mob quest, you are treated to a more "coherent, focused" story telling with occasional CS to "give your warrior of light a reason".

I like how now you can play the older dungeons uncapped, but you are getting ZERO xp if you do that from the trash mob. This to prevent you power leveling your friends to reach level 50. I rather take FF14 as it is, a very well done curated experience that forces everyone to stick through the MSQ and have to deal with dungeons via MSQ. Good thing they are not doing "open world, explore anything and everything how you want it" - if you are looking for this, there are other games like that, ESO seems to be a good match.

You see, we both see this differently. This is not just a straight up clone of every other online RPG out there. It is FINAL FANTASY game FIRST and FOREMOST, period. The specific target audience here is FF fans, this is why the game is huge in fan service from every other FF games and universe. They are selling a FF experience, story, and universe, with some online component, not the other way around. Everything is built around FF story and its rich history. It is FF brand and flagship title, so they should not be treated differently than other offline FF. You can literally solo your entire way to level 50 by doing MSQ, with the occasional one run for each dungeons needed to clear MSQ. And never have to touch endgame activities much other than your daily roulette for tomes (which you cap if you doing it daily in one week). They are not forcing people to grind dungeons other than necessary.

It is the journey that is more exciting, rather than "are we there yet so I can join the raid?". Obviously this part is extremely grating if you are leveling another alts like me... But I made peace with this, and I know "I can't have the game changed to suit my needs - just because I want it that way and faster for all my alts - instead of having to deal with MSQ again, and again, and again...". I understand there far many other players who want to play the game as is, they way it is intended by the creator.

But the BIGGEST difference for FF14 compared to other online RPG, is that once you did that MSQ, you are done, forever. Every other class you level after, you can just go into the massive braindead grinds of FATE, dungeons, levequest, hunting logs, daily roulette. Unlike WoW, where every single character has to go through the same rote bazillion trillion fetch quests. Obviously when FF14 gives the "pay $20 to get level cap" we will be talking different story.