A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Atrayl]

You didn't answer the question.

The storyline content has to be weaved in with gatekeeping the content to keep people from just grinding in one place.

Why does if "have" to do this?

[Reinha]

When it comes to potential new players being turned off by all the story, I'd say it's not always a bad thing. There are a lot of things in this game that can turn people away. I will give some examples. New player A tries game, doesn't like the lengthy global cooldown but likes the armory/class system. New player B doesn't like how everything is supposed to be done by the same character because he is an altaholic. He does like the story though, and enjoys being rewarded for doing it. New player C finds the story boring and can't stand the idea of 100+ hours of it, but she loves the housing neighborhoods. New player D finds it really stupid that housing is limited and expensive, but enjoys the crafting system. New player E hates how much effort you have to put into gearing up gathering and crafting classes but likes battle classes and the strategic nature of combat that the long GCD brings. Which of them is more valuable than the other and would catering to them possibly piss off existing customers?

Sure the main scenario could be trimmed a little but they would have to be extremely careful not to shift the foundation of the game too much. This is and must stay a game where story comes first and gameplay after. Otherwise some of the current players could become unhappy. Sandbox MMOs where everything is freely accessible may sound nice in theory (freedom yay!) but some people really like the on-rails themepark experience that this game offers. "Being forced to do something" is not automatically bad design, especially if the game has had it since the beginning. It just means it attracts a different crowd than other MMOs.

Personally I prefer the themepark experience of FFXIV after playing Warlords of Draenor, where everything is optional. No attunements, no "forced" quests and the rewards for reputation, dungeons, world bosses and pve currency were not worth the effort. There was stuff to do if I'm perfectly honest, but the rewards did not encourage doing them. All because players complained about being "forced" to do things. It became a game of raid or die of boredom, designed for lazy players who want to access their favorite activity without putting any effort into other things. Funnily enough even the raiders started to leave when they realized their friends list was becoming inactive and new raid team members were hard to find. FFXIV still holds on to the RPG element and it's so refreshing after the bland experience I had in WoW.

Please just let me get to 50 if I've already completed the MSQ once. I know, I know, "Why do you need a second character." But I'm a roleplayer. Alts are my playstyle, I like having a skinny Elezen thaumaturge and a beefy Roe warrior, not one character that does everything.

Please don't punish me this much for the way I like to play the game.

It's not a punishment. What's the point of playing alts if you don't actually want to play them? If you are a roleplayer, surely you understand that each character must have their own story and character development. They must do heroic deeds and get to know their allies the same way as every other warrior of light. Someone who just shows up and claims to have done it all is just a fake. There's even a storyline about that in La Noscea. Even if they trim the story at some point, there isn't any point in giving alts a free pass when they aren't necessary to experience all aspects of the game.

What changes from the "pro-story" person's perspective if they remove the story restrictions from content? You can still do the story content.

The restricted content is story content. If the restriction is lifted, it becomes standalone content with a mild link to the story. The main scenario rewards you with not only the story but also access to items, abilities (flying), mounts (magitek, chocobo), titles and content (dungeons). Being rewarded is a part of what I like about the experience. Removing the reward would make it less enjoyable for me.

Given that SE is a business and businesses need to make money, yes, actually, it IS a bad thing.

And we're not talking about completely overhauling the entire game, here. We're talking about altering content that was designed to be playtime-padding filler so it doesn't serve as a barrier to entry so boring that players quit in the middle of it.

I was mainly commenting on the idea of removing story requirements from content. Making money and bringing in new customers are important, but that shouldn't be done at the expense of existing customers. Besides, no one knows how long those new players would stay subbed if the restrictions were to be lifted. My guess is not very long because they wouldn't have enough patience for end game if quests are too much for them. You may not be talking about overhauling the game, but there was a suggestion in this thread, that story should be entirely optional. That is a very big overhaul to the game and not everyone would like it.

[Dinivas]

I'm just going to point out here that casual players and players returning for the expansion had no idea that Heavensward was going to be gated behind the 50 MSQ including all the trials. The SE store makes no mention of this (https://store.na.square-enix.com/pro...eavensward-ps4), and it's incredibly frustrating for my wife who could barely get her relic weapon without her computer overheating. She and I are still on 2.1 and it's incredibly frustrating trying to get a group for the trials that won't kick you when you say it's your first time.


From what I understand, 2.5 and 2.55 are the main patches that lead into Heavensward. If the expansion has to be gated, let people skip to those patches and have 2.1-2.4 be optional quests we can come back and do later with an abridged version of the story available in our inn rooms so we have the option of experiencing it ourselves later. Playing through two patches is much more reasonable than expecting DPS to sit in hour long queues for trials because they don't have a FC to power them through.

Square Enix, you're in a prime position to gain a ton of subscriptions right now with Heavensward. Don't be so pigheaded about the story and turn that money away. Most MMOs have level as the only expansion gate. This isn't what casual players and professional reviewers had in mind.

[Atrayl]

What changes from the "pro-story" person's perspective if they remove the story restrictions from content? You can still do the story content.

[RichardButte]

All I can hear in this thread is: "Mom! More cheesy-poofs!"

Actually, the oily lore nerds crying about people not "earning it" by enduring the same amount of boredom they have are far more likely to fall in the "Mom! More cheesy-poofs!" category.

It's the people who have lives and jobs who want to spend their precious few entertainment hours, you know, actually being entertained.

The MSQ storyline at 50 contains some 350+ quest steps. Most of those are running around, doing stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the main storyline.

Remember, "tedious" ≠ "challenging. Enduring boredom is not some kind of bizarre test of fortitude.

If the story content is optional, then people wouldn't play it for more than a few hours. They would play it just long enough to get to the logical end of killing the hardest monster... forget about the dungeons and raids.

You do know that the story ends long before people stop raiding, right?

Conquering the hardest raid content is the carrot in the majority of MMO on the market, including this one.

When it comes to potential new players being turned off by all the story, I'd say it's not always a bad thing.

Given that SE is a business and businesses need to make money, yes, actually, it IS a bad thing.

And we're not talking about completely overhauling the entire game, here. We're talking about altering content that was designed to be playtime-padding filler so it doesn't serve as a barrier to entry so boring that players quit in the middle of it.

If SE is wondering at the number of people who bought HW then never even actually progressed into HW content, I suspect THIS is why.

[Ayrie]

I have a life. I have a wife, a kid, and a 45+ hour a week job.

I have done all the story. I have done all the optional stuff (minus savage coil). Life and progression are not mutually exclusive.

The mentality that "I need it now" is the problem. Yes, this game gated your precious new shiney. But... Like mentioned earlier: you don't have to do the whole toon over. You do it, you do it once, and now it is behind you.

How many other games allow you the chance to 100% experience the game with one toon? The repetition is how they get your sub longer. Alts made staying subbed to WoW worth it... Once I stopped alting, it was pretty shallow.

[Dinivas]

I have a life. I have a wife, a kid, and a 45+ hour a week job.

I have done all the story. I have done all the optional stuff (minus savage coil). Life and progression are not mutually exclusive.

The mentality that "I need it now" is the problem. Yes, this game gated your precious new shiney. But... Like mentioned earlier: you don't have to do the whole toon over. You do it, you do it once, and now it is behind you.

How many other games allow you the chance to 100% experience the game with one toon? The repetition is how they get your sub longer. Alts made staying subbed to WoW worth it... Once I stopped alting, it was pretty shallow.

How many other games make you sit through hours in group finding queues before you can access the content you just paid for? People want to experience the content they paid for without any hassle. You can do that with every other game. Why should FF14 be any different?

[Ayrie]

How many other games make you sit through hours in group finding queues before you can access the content you just paid for?

You mean like the content you're waiting in queue for? Paid for that, too, didn't you? If you want a shortcut to HW content out of the box.... I give to you the Au'ra.

You want to skip to world 8 and do a speed run. Sorry, Mario, there are no warp pipes in Eorzea.

[Fleur]

Excellent post, OP. As someone working on the MSQ, I wish it was more streamlined. I'd like to see some of the quests of dubious relevance to the story be cut and made into optional side quests.

Also, I do wish there were fewer mandatory dungeons/trials in the MSQ. Not none, just not so many! I looked at a list of them all, and it is very daunting. Nothing brings my MSQ progress to a screeching halt like a duty finder quest, as I need to wait until I have a period of uninterrupted time to not only do the dungeon or trial, but to wait for it in the duty finder. And I cannot continue the MSQ until I have done it. The DF wait isn't bad at all now, but I fear it will again become cumbersome for DPS once the DRK/AST hype dies down.

Still, I'll be plodding along the MSQ. Wish me luck on Garuda -- one step closer to being able to gather in the new areas!

[Dinivas]

You mean like the content you're waiting in queue for? Paid for that, too, didn't you? If you want a shortcut to HW content out of the box.... I give to you the Au'ra.

You want to skip to world 8 and do a speed run. Sorry, Mario, there are no warp pipes in Eorzea.

Nobody's saying cut the content out. We're saying make it optional. Square Enix wants players to play Heavensward. Players want to play Heavensward. Having to wait in a queue to wait in another queue to get gear to wait in another queue before being able to get into Heavensward content is only going to make people feel like they wasted their money on the expansion when they didn't know they had to have all these steps done before they can get there.