A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Atrayl]

Why even bother to play ff if not going through the lore, please do answer this.

"Why bother playing a game if you just want a story? Go read a book!"

This argument is ridiculous and invalid.

I also don't understand how anyone could come to the conclusuon that the MSQ teaches you how to play. Or that people wouldn't run the dungeons if the MSQ didn't force them to. The dungeons are the stuff we do want to do. We just want to do them without doing hundreds of fetch quests.

[RichardButte]

OK what you fail to understand is, I will be more than happy to skip all those CS and MSQ when you already have one main character

Then what's the problem?

There's a difference between the HW MSQ in that nearly every quest actually rolls the story forward (at least up until 55, where I am). If the level 50 MSQ had actually been 350+ quests that actually involved moving the story forward, that'd be one thing, but most of them, as we've been saying, are just filler.

I think the MSQ would actually be ENJOYABLE for most if they cut out the fluff and filler, or as I said, make short narrative scenes like in HW and use those to roll it forward between instances.

Really? Is that hard to really understand that by undergoing the story, you learn certain mechanics of how the game and the class you are playing function?

Running dungeons and trials teaches players how to play the game (also guildhests, which are a neat feature).

The story itself teaches absolutely nothing about how to actually play your class. You can skip every single cutscene in the game and still be amazing at the class you play.

There is literally 0 correlation between the two.

[Terin]

Honestly, yeah, it just needs to be streamlined. That, or kick the XP up even a bit more, or maybe have it automatically put you in the area for your next quest? It's pretty daunting.

I mean, seriously; just go look at your "Unending Journal". The Main Scenario alone, pre-Heavensward, is INSANELY long. Which is great in some ways, but worse in others.

[Felis]

Really? Is that hard to really understand that by undergoing the story, you learn certain mechanics of how the game and the class you are playing function? But then again, why bother explain over and over again this fact. The story forces you to enter different dungeons and primals which have different mechanics.

The story teach you how the world around you work and evolve, not how you play your job.

[Madjames]

Hmm ill chime in again

To the person saying that the MSQ or any other dungeon or primal teaches me how to play. Sorry but your WRONG!

I learn how to play by the internet. I learn to min/max my character and job (I picked the 2nd best race though but I liked them more). Then I go and watch EVERY FIGHT before I even start it with the duty finder.

The point here is that I want to do things with friends. Others like me want our friends to join us in the new expansion, NOT run around doing 20+ HOURS (from where I left off only which was the quest fireworks and fish don't mix) to finishing when they are ALREADY LEVEL 50, Which is the required level to get into the expansion! No other mmorpg locks the expansion out like this game, NONE!!

This is a huge problem for people who want alts (Downgraded my sub as well as my wife's sub until we can skip the whole MSQ Crap) or new players who are here to, I dont know, Play an MMORPG with their friends in the EXPANSION and NOT go and pay money to Watch a movie/read some In game book to which we have little to NO CARE ABOUT! It needs to be fixed.

The MSQ needs to be streamlined and trimmed! Or downright OPTIONAL!

The new jobs need to be allowed by NEW PLAYERS before hitting 50 and the expac needs to be unlocked and gated ONLY to a hard level cap of 50+!

[Atrayl]

The story teach you how the world around you work and evolve, not how you play your job.

How does me not knowing this affect you?

Should only people with an encyclopedic knowledge of a game's lore be allowed to play it?

Should only those fluent in Tolkien's Elvish be allowed to make Elf characters in LOTRO?

[Madjames]

How does me not knowing this affect you?

Should only people with an encyclopedic knowledge of a game's lore be allowed to play it?

Should only those fluent in Tolkien's Elvish be allowed to make Elf characters in LOTRO?

It should not. The MSQ needs to be streamlined, trimmed, and made OPTIONAL!!

[Luvbunny]

I want to play with friend who are already 50+ and dread the grind I wll have to do at 50 for story sake. Why grind out gear when it's useless as soon as you buy the stuff in the first HW area? Idgi. But I will give the Heavensward story a shot. Maybe it will hook me on the lore going on atm.

This is a big problem for sure, especially if you have alts. Almost every JRPG has these type of inane quests and slow burn "immersion" activity, it's their bread and butter "padding content" way of extending gameplay. The issue is this, for people who just want to get straight into the action, aka dungeon + trials + raid grinds, the MSQ is nothing but a hindrance. I already know how to play the game, just let me get to the finish line. What they should have done with this expansion is to allow access for the three new jobs sooner. At the end of the day, you will do MSQ anyway because it's a great source of XP, as well as a good activity to do while waiting for dungeons.

FFXI is a good example of this. Most of the expansion content city and new jobs are accessible at level 30, but the actual activities are off limits until you reach certain level (level 30, 50, 75, 99). This way everyone can try the new jobs ASAP, and encourage new players to level up already to do the activities. What FF14 does right is by giving you massive amounts of XP and reward for MSQ. You get almost nothing in FFXI (maybe a reward or two).

The problem of allowing people to skip MSQ in its entirety can be seen in FFXI, here the main story is somewhat optional, you can get to 99 without doing much of the MSQ - but at the end some of the end game required you do complete them. This then became an actual shock for some players - it was brutal when they realize this at the end - and they cannot find people to help them clear these missions (now it is no longer the case with uncap level, but still a MASSIVE undertaking to solo, huge timesink). For example, Chains of Promathia endgame was only accessible to 10% of the players when the game came out for 2 years. Here, everyone has access to endgame by the end of level 50 because you are forced to go through the MSQ.

As someone else said, if you bring new players to the game, "I want to do raid ASAP" is the last thing in their mind. They want to explore, get to know the surrounding, learn the lore, play the game, etc... If you are the type of a person who absolutely hate MSQ stuffs, there is not much to love in HW, it is the same thing, repeated again, but takes longer due to the area being massive. And everything is locked out behind MSQ when it comes to dungeons (only one is accessible - but you would not know this unless you explore and do quests).

[Luvbunny]

300+ quests isn't necessary. It just isn't.Dungeons aren't even necessary, really. All you need to know about SE dungeons is how to strafe, dance, and memorize a pattern because that's all they are. No one is learning anything meaningful in Satasha that they couldn't learn at max level when they go into experts by reading the tooltips and practicing at the dummy.

LMAO, why are you here? playing this game? if the actual gameplay and activity is not necessary? and you learn nothing meaningful by doing the dungeons? Since you just stated every thing about the game is useless and just strafe dance memorize pattern.... FF14 is what it is, not perfect, but it is one of the best online RPG right now, at least to some people, a good 2 millions of them.

[Madjames]

LMAO, why are you here? playing this game? if the actual gameplay and activity is not necessary? and you learn nothing meaningful by doing the dungeons? Since you just stated every thing about the game is useless and just strafe dance memorize pattern.... FF14 is what it is, not perfect, but it is one of the best online RPG right now, at least to some people, a good 2 millions of them.

Hmm I can answer

I am here to do dungeons and make my own story for my character. I already have a 10 page written backstory to him. I have completely disregarded the MSQ as my character would not ever dream of doing anything in it as his personality and how he is would totally not get involved.

I write my own story for my character and when I eventually leave this game, many years from now I will write his death in the already detailed book about his life.

With this said he is in the new area exploring the new expansion looking to make himself more powerful. He is searching for the most dangerous and formidable foe's (Raids) and continues to train and battle monsters in preparation to do so.

IRL I am here to get to end game, raid, and have fun with FRIENDS. An mmorpg for me is to play with friends, not run around doing random solo missions and stupid story fluff that is not influential to my characres story in any way shape or form. My character is his own special snowflake, not some guardian of the land like everyone else in the story. Although I will say that what transpires in the world as far as the MSQ goes, he knows whats going on but is not actively involved at all.

I also play to mine. I love spending 8+ hours doing nothing but mining and selling my wares. I have made quite a list of customers to fill orders for. I have enough on my plate and my character has enough on his plate from an RP standpoint to even worry much less care about the MSQ.

My way of playing an MMORPG has always been this way starting back 18 years ago in Ultima Online and before that, playing Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons where you actually have to make a story for YOURSELF and you are not being held or forced to continue on some rail story. There is no right or WRONG way to play an MMORPG as it has been designed for every type of player in mind. Just because some of us are NOT story huggers does not automatically mean that we should quit and play something else.

This is an MMORPG first in a final fantasy THEMED world, Story is second and always will be. If it wasnt, we would be watching a movie/reading a book for hours and hours and hours and NOT interacting much at all and we would be heavily on rails and restricted much like the old FF games were of previous years.

You state also this: "as someone else said, if you bring new players to the game, "I want to do raid ASAP" is the last thing in their mind. They want to explore, get to know the surrounding, learn the lore, play the game, etc... If you are the type of a person who absolutely hate MSQ stuffs, there is not much to love in HW, it is the same thing, repeated again, but takes longer due to the area being massive. And everything is locked out behind MSQ when it comes to dungeons (only one is accessible - but you would not know this unless you explore and do quests)."

This is HIGHLY FAR FROM THE TRUTH!! Most mmorpg Friends of mine came here from wow. They are experienced and veteran hardcore raiders, more so then me by a long shot. Some have world first kills. This is what they came here to do. So they Powerlevel themselves to max level and gear themselves out JUST TO RAID!! That is how they want to play their MMORPG experience! That is not a wrong way to play and for me or anyone else to say otherwise is downright in denial and stupid for doing so, as we do NOT have a right to tell others how to enjoy a game that they are PAYING FOR AND WE ARE NOT! This game has been, BY DESIGN, meant for many different players and not just the story huggers. If all you want is the story then my suggestion is to go and play a single player rpg game like FF6 or FF7 or FFT as they have a much better story anyhow then this game and that way you are not forcing your play-style upon others.

One of the reasons for some hardcore raiders to come here is because Wow has become Faceroll. None of the boss fights are challenging so they came here in search of that challenge and they have found it here. You can not sit there and say people ALL JOIN for ONE REASON ONLY. You can not sit there and say that ALL of them joining are all thinking EXACTLY THE SAME thing and it is EXACTLY how YOU see it. You have NO IDEA why people join this game, we all have our reasons. To sit there and say that we shouldn't play this game because we could give a crap about the story is a bad attitude and if SE follows it, this game will not grow to its full potential and will close down much sooner because people will move onto a more free and accepting new player gaming experience.

Lastly this is an MMORPG FIRST AND FOREMOST in a final fantasy themed world, designed for Tons of different players in mind. To exclude a certain player-base from enjoining said mmorpg the way THEY WANT TO PLAY, by forcing an unnecessary aspect of it on them is the WRONG WAY to go about doing this. Gating is fine, FORCING solo missions and MSQ crap on the general population of joining players when all they want to do is get max level and play with their friends is a stupid marketing move and a stupid strategy! World of warcraft had it right when leveling and expansions are concerned. Those who enjoyed the storys and quests could do that. Those that wanted to do nothing but PVP and level that way could also, do that as well. When an expansion hit, the main area WAS gated by a hard level cap and a 1 minute starting quest to enter said area ONLY! There was no gated areas after this and you could run around and explore as much as you wanted to and level your gethering professions without touching any quest ever again. Flgiht was gated by In game currency and again a hard level cap ONLY! Also NONE of the new classes were gated and could be gotten and played from the beginning of the expansion by any new players joining (With the exclusion of the death knight as they had a hard cap of having one level 55 as they started at level 55 to begin with, not sure if they removed this requirement or not).

SE should follow this model as it clearly has been working great for the past 10 years. This has nothing to do about hand outs. This has everything to do with forcing a play-style upon another. I guarantee you that if SE EVER forced any form of PVP on me to progress, I would quit right then and there as I despise PVP. Other people, some raiding friends of mine HAVE QUIT because of this forced archaic MSQ solo-mission obsession. Others have slogged through it. I just hope it becomes Optional to those who want alts and at least TRIMMED and exp boosted for those who are joining.