The Tale of the Dark Knight (DRK Spoilers)

[Jonnycbad]

So DRK storyline is basically a combination of Hollow Ichigo/Evil Ryu/FF4 Cecil plot elements.

[Cilia]

I was actually confused if Fray existed or not.

The thing is, after you defeat your shadow and accept it, the soldier at Whitebrim mentions giving "your friend" a proper burial. From that line and the fact that people do seem to at least acknowledge Fray's presence when s/he speaks to them, I presumed "Fray" was your shadow possessing the body of Fray the dead Dark Knight to have a corporeal form. Sidurgu, the Auri Dark Knight who offers to train you after the 30-50 questline, will talk about him if you ask, and though he hasn't much to say he confirms that Fray was a real person.

It's kind of screwy, but that's what I patched together.

So DRK storyline is basically a combination of Hollow Ichigo/Evil Ryu/FF4 Cecil plot elements.

Ehh, I felt it was something closer to a Persona 4 story arc. "Fray" is you - or rather, your shadow: the repressed parts of your psyche, especially you anger and resentment about having to play the hero all the time and getting nothing but praise (at best) in return. In the end you have to accept that "Fray" is a part of you, much like the characters of P4, even though the entire population of Whitebrim saw your dark and ugly side.

[Keisatsu]

The thing is, after you defeat your shadow and accept it, the soldier at Whitebrim mentions giving "your friend" a proper burial. From that line and the fact that people do seem to at least acknowledge Fray's presence when s/he speaks to them, I presumed "Fray" was your shadow possessing the body of Fray the dead Dark Knight to have a corporeal form. Sidurgu, the Auri Dark Knight who offers to train you after the 30-50 questline, will talk about him if you ask, and though he hasn't much to say he confirms that Fray was a real person.

It's kind of screwy, but that's what I patched together.

Honestly from that line I thought they just took his corpse back from Ishgard and buried him from there, but you might be correct also, it's a pretty interesting storyline I must say however.

As for Fray being a real person, what I meant was, he was never real after we saw his corpse, we hallucinated him into existence while everyone else saw Fray as our shadow / us.
It's like from a point of perspective, A (the player) see's B (Fray) while C (everybody else) see's A (the player, but when Fray talks, it's the shadow talking) until the 50 quest where he becomes his own separate being as D (our shadow manifested)

[Cilia]

As for Fray being a real person, what I meant was, he was never real after we saw his corpse, we hallucinated him into existence while everyone else saw Fray as our shadow / us.
It's like from a point of perspective, A (the player) see's B (Fray) while C (everybody else) see's A (the player, but when Fray talks, it's the shadow talking) until the 50 quest where he becomes his own separate being as D (our shadow manifested)

While that's certainly a possibility given Fray's vague appearance in prior quests, in the 50 quest you go to Whitebrim and find "Fray" having already beaten the soldiers there into submission. They also recoil in fear when s/he glares at them, and Fray's body doesn't disappear when your shadow manifests itself; it just slumps to the ground.

So while the other ones are still a bit ambiguous, I'm pretty confident "Fray" was your shadow commandeering Fray's body during the 50 quest.

[Keisatsu]

While that's certainly a possibility given Fray's vague appearance in prior quests, in the 50 quest you go to Whitebrim and find "Fray" having already beaten the soldiers there into submission. They also recoil in fear when s/he glares at them, and Fray's body doesn't disappear when your shadow manifests itself; it just slumps to the ground.

So while the other ones are still a bit ambiguous, I'm pretty confident "Fray" was your shadow commandeering Fray's body during the 50 quest.

That's where the whole "They see you while you see Fray" comes to mind..the only plot hole to my theory is his body when your shadow leaves it behind.

But yes the others are still pretty ambiguous since no npc has ever talked to him directly or addressed him directly, they only talk to you and address you as if he wasn't even there.

[Mieck]

So DRK storyline is basically a combination of Hollow Ichigo/Evil Ryu/FF4 Cecil plot elements.

It's actually much more Fight Club than anything else, and the clues start to drop in during the 40 quest, and are then rammed home in the 45.

Edit: and now I see that's a comparison lots of other people have made

Edit: And yes, the Fight Club analogy works because it's all about your character's perception of Fray, not other people's, so at first, you think s/he's there. Just like when Tyler is listing the rules of Fight Club, the narrator thinks he is looking on. It's not until you give that tirade to the Limsa merchant that it all falls into place. Fray has gone and you're the only one there. The Maelstrom guy says he can understand why you're angry.

[saber_alter]

It's not until you give that tirade to the Limsa merchant that it all falls into place. Fray has gone and you're the only one there. The Maelstrom guy says he can understand why you're angry.

the maelstorm guard is actually still referring to Fray at that point.

our realization just comes from subtle clues. things fray says that fray shouldn't know.

"after what happened at Ul'dah?"

our character doesn't know it's the literal personification of our desire to break the shackles of fate and be free until we see ourselves as a fully equipped dark knight seeking to pull you away from the vicious cycle you have shoehorned yourself into one way or another.

[Mieck]

the maelstorm guard is actually still referring to Fray at that point.

It can be read two ways;

Mieck, madam, I... You have every right to be upset, but...

Styrnlona looks at the overbearing trader in despair. The use of the word "madam" (or "sir", I suppose), is the part with two meanings. Does he mean Fray? Or is he simply addressing you formally because he's just heard you chew the merchant out and he might get the same treatment if he appears over-familiar? Fray has already disappeared from shot and your character is facing away. Styrnlona then addresses the only person remaining.

...I think he understands, madam.

Your character's perception is what is important here - just because people seem to be addressing Fray, we know afterwards they are not. I know it seems like I'm twisting in knots to follow this line of thinking, but (and I accept this can be put back to me as a counter argument) text that comes from NPCs is pretty unreliable in this quest line because of the state of mind your character is in. In effect, they see what they want/expect to see.
To reinforce the Tyler Durden role, Fray actually even quotes him, almost word for word in the scene immediately afterwards on Moraby Dry Docks

Only when you have renounced everything are you free to do anything.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

[saber_alter]

It can be read two ways;

yes, i noticed that.

note that whatever you gender is is the gender people refer to fray as. if your a guy, fray talks like a guy. if you a girl, fray is a woman trapped in a man's body.