Why do you dislike Garlemald Empire and Ascians?

[Hexceed]

Just as some of you seem to have a burning desire to defend why Alphinaud is a likable character I would like to question why so many people seem to strongly dislike Garlemald Empire and the Ascians. Yes I get that the story writers of FFXIV have portrayed both parties as the general evil bad guys planning to take over the world or do bad things for the sake of (God knows what they're really planning), but is that really all it takes for people to cringe and claim they dislike evil organizations for the sake of it?

Personally I don't find any of their actions in the story so far necessarily evil. As a matter of fact if there was a scenario at some point where you can choose to join either over the Scions I think I would switch sides at a heartbeat.

So I'm quite interested to hear why you dislike them.

Feedback so far

They've killed people I like.
And Garlemald likes genocide too much.

People die in wars. The way I saw it, Gaius did offer a proposal to the other leaders asking them for their cooperation and in return he will not wage war against their countries. I think I'm correct in thinking that Garlemalf prefers to avoid bloodshed unless they deem it absolutely necessary to spill blood for their ideals.

I...think you're just grasping straws here by trying to compare Alphinuad to the enemy.

Alphinuad was the first npc to come to mind. For all I care I could have said Minfilia if it bothered you so much. As for your assumption of my hatred for the Scions and the decisions they made (not just Alphinuad) yes it's all true, I despise them for being absolutely useless and unable to take direct actions to achieve their ideals. You play the role of being their errand boy/girl and their butcher while they stay their own hands from bloodshed and violence. Very inspiring leaders to follow and serve.... not

I don't hate the empire but I hate the Ascians because they have to play that annoying theme everytime they show up.

Do my ears deceive me that you would learn to like them if you muted BGM?

The reason for stopping the Asicans is easy to explain,

They go around teaching folk and beast tribes how to summon primals which in turn drains the world of its aether, thus the root of such events as the calamitys, wars and other effects on Eorzea.

I'm on the fence about this very issue though. At present we know so little of what they hope to achieve by doing this. Yes they do it to ressurect -Spoiler-ark but what will happen afterwards? I for one believe until we truly understand what this ressurection will achieve we can't label their actions as being evil for the sake of being evil (aka being dicks for absolutely no reasons). You have to question, will their actions be justified if it actually ends up saving Eorzea? Yes difficult to imagine since they are doing all they can to wrought havoc across the world but I trust there is a whole lot more to this than what we observe as "Warriors of Light."

I'm indifferent to the Ascians and Alphinaud. The Garleans however, strike me as an entity with no deeper background than to be a pain in the royal arse. Too shallow, so much machinery, almost everyone hiding behind a mask.

Well the Ascians too but there's slightly more depth to their story.

I can claim that our leaders of Good are also a pain in the royal arse in that they really don't do much. They leave the player with the most difficult tasks while they seem to be content doing absolutely nothing. All I've seen so far is them meeting up in their hideout located in Ul'dah burning papers and throwing parties. At the very least Gaius took it to the front lines himself to take actions for what he believed in. Only memorable time I remember them employing their military strength was during the Arcanist quest chain where they sent the might of the Maelstrom's naval forces to capture a pirate (After you more or less killed all of his crew).

So your attempt at the hate circle-jerk w/ Alhpi didn't work so here you are? Alright, let's play....

I don't consider them what you define as evil. I sure as hell consider them to be an awful existence and threat to the everyone's livelihood. They're not so bad, right? They just want all of Eorzea's people to denounce all of their culture and religion and accept the Garlean's way of life. Oh, and this isn't an option of course, this is something that they will make happen by force, like sending a massive invasion force to conquer all lands. No big deal, this is totally an okay thing to do.

Another Alphinuad sympathizer? Haha I seem to have struck a nerve with a few of you. As mentioned I have no outstanding dislike of Alphinuad since I dislike the Scions just as equally mind you.

As for your explanation, sometimes military actions are necessary to reach a favorable negotiation with other world leaders. You might have been blissfully ignorant about this but this happens alot more often than you'd like to believe in the Real world and I'm not pointing fingers at any particular countries =P In history lessons we're taught that this was necessary evil if I remember correctly.

I don't dislike them, people told me they are my enemies and, as a warrior of light, I kick their asses. However, I want an Ascian robe.

If you learn where to find them, pray tell because I'd like one too.

Garlemald: Genocide.

Ascians: They literally exist to kill Hydaelyn. Shouldn't need to ask this, but I think you did mention you skipped a lot of cutscenes.

Genocide with a cause.

And we literally don't know what killing Hydaelyn will do to the planet. I skipped alot of cutscenes which I thought was irrelevant. For example (with a lot of exaggeration) I seem to recall being sent to gather some herbal tea extract from a morbol's balls (well probably not his balls but meh =P ) because the scions would like some fine exquisite tastes. Was that quest really relevant to the story as a whole? Perhaps the tea was an important factor in communing with Hydaelyn.

Garlemald: They want a war that literally nobody else wants, perfect reason to hate them.

Ascian: They're basically the Jehova's Witnesses of the game, nobody likes them, they go around teaching people things they don't need to know which ends up messing up the balance of everything.

Gaius offered an alternative, albeit that alternative meant a surrender but it would have resulted with significantly less bloodshed. Alphinuad barged into the meeting and convinced them otherwise. World leaders were then charmed by this teenager's charisma and decided to embrace an all out war of attrition against the Emprie.

We know too little of their goal to claim their actions have been for ill intent. For all we know it might all be an evil action taken not because they enjoy being pricks for the hell of it but because it's come to the point that they have to take such drastic actions to save the world.

All I know is that day one, I would have went with Garlemald. If during that whole rah rah grand company speech deal where you had to visit each nation and choose, I would have went with Garlemald. Technology, military strength, sick looking armor, and a leader that actually does stuff. Take a look at all the other nations' leaders pre-Heavensward. Weak. Indecisive. Cowards. The lot of them. Save maybe Raubahn, but even then, he isn't the "leader" of his nation.

Gaius deserves high praises and respect if I compare his leadership and willingness to take actions compared to other world leaders. He was willing to commit his lot with the ideals he believed in while other world leaders gave empty lip service that they will be joining in the war only to let the protagonist go fight their wars for them. Not once during that siege have I seen a single alliance soldier marching into the enemy stronghold and the only time we've seen the leaders during that whole siege was right after it during a celebrations conference. Very charismatic the whole lot of them....

What she said.

I hate Ascians because they keep manipulating people into killing the characters we like.
and
the Garleans only solution to "saving" the world is to repeat the mistakes the Allagan Empire made which in the end destroyed the Allagan Empire and almost the enitre world.

Do we really know what ultimately went wrong with the Allagan Empire's methods? Are we 100% confident that Gaius would have failed using similar methods? Or could it be that Gaius was alot more competent than his predecessors and would have succeed where they failed?

Much like your signature it might have just been that the Allagan Empires failures were due to the almighty RNG god.

It's not really touched in too much in the MSQ, but some of the comments from other NPCs have pointed out just how atrocious the Garleans are. Men and women of sufficient age and strength are pressed into compulsory military service; this is how Garleon builds their armies. Women (and some men) of age but lacking strength or battle skills are used as sex slaves. The eldery, and children, are used as slaves for everything else. Nobody is free in Garleon occupied lands - you do what you're told or you are executed on the spot. If you tried to escape, you're executed if you are caught, and your remaining family is probably executed too, to make an example. Garleans treat anyone who isn't a full blooded Garlean as disposable.

Basically, the Garleons are the Nazis (with some of the worst stuff from Japanese Imperial Army thrown in) from the Captain America movies.

I haven't the slightest clue about sex slaves, I thought SE wouldn't approve of such dialogues even if it was to portray the image of evil. If you can please tell me where I can find such dialogue, I'm quite curious to see this myself.

While you've illustrated an elaborate portrayal of Garlemald, I have to wonder if Ul'dah isn't heading into similar direction of leadership under the strict rule of Brass Blades. Corruptions in militant forces exists everywhere the way I see it, some are more readily visible than others. For all we know, similar things might be happening in the underworld of all three nations.

We see the corruption of the Brass Blades during the Gladiator quest chains and the last segment of MSQ before Heavensward. If I care to remember there were some corruptions in Gridania as well, soldiers defecting and providing intel to Garlemald.

As for your accusations of Garlemald, unless it came directly from a Garlemald's ex-citizen I would say there's benefit of a doubt about the slave(and sex slaves) trades within Garlemald. They might be war stories and rumors spread throughout the alliance to unite the countries in volunteering their joint efforts against the Empire's armies.

I dislike the ascians because they are boring, cliche bad guys. They sow chaos because that is what the do. They are bad because they are bad. Its like having the devil as the bad guy. Boring. Lame. Cliche. Evil for evils sake is just....ugh. The only redeeming quality is the aspect of balance with light. The stronger the light the more shadows it casts etc. Its more a statement of the nature of humanity. There will always be darkness and you can\\'t truly extinguish it because it lies within all people. Ffxi dawn vs twilight gods all over again, man is the child of both blah blah. Its old and been told since Adam and eve.

I like the garleans. They say FU to all the godlike powers of the world and take their fate into their own hands. No blessing of light, no manipulation by the dark power ascians. With their own hands they are forging a path, not depending on some superpower to support and save them. They are the only thing in this game that isnt a pawn of someone else save their own ambition. Respect. They aren't nice. They to horrible things, but I gotta respect their gumption and independence.

We still don't know what the Ascians are really trying to achieve. Elidibus strikes me as an interesting villain and while the Scions have every right to go "OMG ASCIAN KILL IT WITH FIRE!" we learn that some of them are trying to communicate with you and make you see their reasoning. I'm very interested to see more of Elidibus as I really believe there's a whole lot more we can discover about the Ascians than what we know.

I totally agree with your analysis of the Garleans. They deserve respect and I like them for it.

I'm still half expecting the Ascians to be working FOR Alphinaud. I swear that little shit is trying to get me killed. "Ok time to decide who does what... Shad you take the 8 dragons on the left, I'll go talk to this guy over here about... Stuff, yeh that's right, off you go."

Even as a joke that is a scary thought.

I specifically liked Gaius. While ham-handed with some things, he was an idealist, and did not share the same vision for Eorzea as the other generals, and ended up ostracized for it. I personally still hope he actually survived to later start a full-fledged civil war within the empire. I'd be more than willing to fight with him in a heartbeat. I cannot disagree with his old assessment of Eorzea as it was.

Yes totally. I also secretly hope he survived, he was a great character to lose. But if he is lost to us forever I would at the very least like to find his armor and carry on his legacy in my future adventures as a dark knight.

[Roda]

They've killed people I like.
And Garlemald likes genocide too much.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I...think you're just grasping straws here by trying to compare Alphinuad to the enemy.

[Evangela]

I don't hate the empire but I hate the Ascians because they have to play that annoying theme everytime they show up.

[Talia_Hailwind]

The reason for stopping the Asicans is easy to explain,

They go around teaching folk and beast tribes how to summon primals which in turn drains the world of its aether, thus the root of such events as the calamitys, wars and other effects on Eorzea.

[Aphel]

I'm indifferent to the Ascians and Alphinaud. The Garleans however, strike me as an entity with no deeper background than to be a pain in the royal arse. Too shallow, so much machinery, almost everyone hiding behind a mask.

Well the Ascians too but there's slightly more depth to their story.

[Lewtskie]

So your attempt at the hate circle-jerk w/ Alhpi didn't work so here you are? Alright, let's play....

I don't consider them what you define as evil. I sure as hell consider them to be an awful existence and threat to the everyone's livelihood. They're not so bad, right? They just want all of Eorzea's people to denounce all of their culture and religion and accept the Garlean's way of life. Oh, and this isn't an option of course, this is something that they will make happen by force, like sending a massive invasion force to conquer all lands. No big deal, this is totally an okay thing to do.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

I don't dislike them, people told me they are my enemies and, as a warrior of light, I kick their asses. However, I want an Ascian robe.

[Krylo]

Garlemald: Genocide.

Ascians: They literally exist to kill Hydaelyn. Shouldn't need to ask this, but I think you did mention you skipped a lot of cutscenes.

[Dererk]

OP has never seen an Ascians true form I take it.

On the topic of Garmald sure lets join up with them why not. Its not like a guy lost his sister and mother because they decided to jump off a cliff rather die than go back to a Garlein occupied Al ma Higo right? And its sure not like Nero killed that guy who said he came from Al ma Higo.

And its not like the entire nation of Doma was destroyed by trying to take back their nation and its not like the whole place was destroyed to make an example. Right?