WHM Vs AST Healing Comparison at 50

[Aphel]

Sure they're efficient, but do you really want to see your raid at 80% health and wait 20 seconds for it to slowly fill up? Will you even have that 20 seconds before the boss unleashes another AOE?

[Staris]

Sure they're efficient, but do you really want to see your raid at 80% health and wait 20 seconds for it to slowly fill up? Will you even have that 20 seconds before the boss unleashes another AOE?

This is a argument that misses any real application.
If the WHM topped off the raid from nearly no life in 1 medica 2 and 2 medica 1s, the Astro would do it in the same amount of casts and cost them less mana and less overhealing, the potency's are nearly identical in application.

[GideonHighmourn]

This is a argument that misses any real application.
If the WHM topped off the raid from nearly no life in 1 medica 2 and 2 medica 1s, the Astro would do it in the same amount of casts and cost them less mana and less overhealing, the potency's are nearly identical in application.

The WHM can do it in less casts with Divine Seal, and faster with PoM.

That's the point your missing.

[RichardButte]

After reading this thread, I'm pretty convinced almost none of you have actually played AST, or if you have, are awful at the class.

Could you elaborate on why that is?

The problem is that the class' key feature (the card system) lacks the oomph necessary to justify bringing it over a SCH/WHM combo. I've played both SCH and AST to 52 with the same gear and done dungeons with both. The AST has less healing/mitigation overall and that WOULD be okay if the card system really made a huge difference, but I just don't feel like it did.

Never at any point did the buffs feel like they were making any real impact on the fights (even trash pulls) and as such, I just don't see what niche AST is going to fill. If bosses were dying faster or the tank was taking that much less damage, etc., sure, but it ultimately felt like the cards weren't making that much of a difference.

Also, a number of the cards are either questionable or downright worthless.

The Spear is absolutely pointless (no pun intended), and the Ewer and Spire seek to rectify a problem that shouldn't exist to start with (ie the target running out of MP/TP). Also, I can't see how much TP anyone in my party has, and AoEing it ensures that it'll likely be 50% useless as most classes either use MP or TP (with a select few using both).

But really, all of the buffs are kinda limp noodles, and seeing as how we're contending with RNG to determine which one we get, that isn't going to work in the long term.

Again, if you have any insight as to how to play the class differently (especially if you have some level 60 experience with it), I'm sure people will listen.

[Eudyptes]

Also, a number of the cards are either questionable or downright worthless.

The Spear is absolutely pointless (no pun intended), and the Ewer and Spire seek to rectify a problem that shouldn't exist to start with (ie the target running out of MP/TP).

The Spear, while weaker than the other cards, isn't worthless. You just need to be selfish with it. Personally I like to hold it when I get it and use it directly before Luminiferous Aether. Combine this with the occasional Ewer and mana issues aren't much of a problem. I find that in 8 mans, using the Spear like that on myself and using Ewer on the other healer tends to be a good balance at keeping everyone happy. But if you, as an AST, are still having mana issues, you can always just use Ewer on yourself as well.

Also, I can't see how much TP anyone in my party has, and AoEing it ensures that it'll likely be 50% useless as most classes either use MP or TP (with a select few using both).

Both Ewer and Spire are best used on single targets, not AE. Save the AE buffs for Arrow/Balance since that's really where the AE buffs are going to pull ahead. As far as seeing their TP pool goes, since this is a reduction not a refresh, casting on them"early" isn't as much of a problem. I'd say anyone with 800~ TP and actively attacking a target is going to get the full benefit of it. Just prioritize the classes who burn through TP, like MNKs.

But really, all of the buffs are kinda limp noodles, and seeing as how we're contending with RNG to determine which one we get, that isn't going to work in the long term.

And this right here is one of the bigger problem with the people in this thread. The card system is great when used properly, but it's not the crux of the class. It's more like the icing on the cake.

I can't say I have leveled AST myself. But as going with a friend and leveling with him with me being the DRK...Even with some randoms as well, I see ASTs struggling to keep people up when crap hits the fan. Big pulls? It's a huge challenge. Constant AoEs(Hi Vault)? It's a challenge. We even went back to T13 to try and get weapons and it was apparent that AST could not do ANYTHING if their counterpart is gone. It's simply too much for them. Megaflares, Spike damage on MT, etc.

The point everyone is making that while the BASE numbers are similar, what they can do EFFECTIVELY in the long run is not anywhere as good as WHM and SCH.

I don't know what to tell you, cause I can't see what they are doing wrong. All I can say is I don't seem to be having these same issues.

[RichardButte]

And this right here is one of the bigger problem with the people in this thread. The card system is great when used properly, but it's not the crux of the class. It's more like the icing on the cake.

It's the defining feature of the class, though.

Objectively speaking, the AST numbers are significantly weaker than those of WHM and SCH, it has fewer "OH SHI-" buttons and cannot reliably AoE heal as well, which is absolutely vital for most raid encounters.

If I were leading a raid group, I would insist upon not bringing an AST in the class' current incarnation because it simply lacks the tools of the other healing classes and brings an unreliable buff system to compensate, a buff system that's barely worth it even when they draw all the "right" cards at the right time.

[Lorielle]

I don't know what to tell you, cause I can't see what they are doing wrong. All I can say is I don't seem to be having these same issues.

I trust my friend enough to know what he's talking about. He is a good healer. Don't misinterpret though. AST can do content. Not saying it's impossible, but their nature is completely support(End Game wise). If the main healing goes down, -Supportive Healing- is going to have a tough time stabilizing.

Well said, I'm amazed at all the ignorant astro bashing going on here.

Probably not directed to a lot of people, but again, I do not have Astrologian leveled. It is merely tank observations. One can "think" like an Astrologian, but what does this even mean exactly? A SCH, WHM and AST have the same role in the group. It's to cure people. The differences that set them apart is their abilities and curing potential.

[jars]

And this right here is one of the bigger problem with the people in this thread. The card system is great when used properly, but it's not the crux of the class. It's more like the icing on the cake.

what is the crux of the class then? sub-par heals?

[Kiaris]

This is a argument that misses any real application.
If the WHM topped off the raid from nearly no life in 1 medica 2 and 2 medica 1s, the Astro would do it in the same amount of casts and cost them less mana and less overhealing, the potency's are nearly identical in application.

But is that going to happen ?

WHM cap pop Seal and heal for a crap ton and do it in 1-2 heals, while AST could take 3-4 trying to raid heal... In the mean time the tank is getting spiked on for damage.

I guess an AST could just use a card.. and get a random buff and solve it all at just the right time.

[Aphel]

This is a argument that misses any real application.
If the WHM topped off the raid from nearly no life in 1 medica 2 and 2 medica 1s, the Astro would do it in the same amount of casts and cost them less mana and less overhealing, the potency's are nearly identical in application.

The difference is the speed in which they can do it. A Divine Sealed Medica I/II beats anything an AST can pump out in the same amount of time. Think about T13's Megaflare + Towers in phase 2. A WHM can pull off healing that easily, but what can AST offer in return?