Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Aeyis]

Reason why they should not allow you to use other type of wep that does not make sense for your job is.

Mage would use a hand to hand would you really be attacking? nope your back line job.

If your a lancer and using hand to hand wep what the point? if your a pricing type? Same goes for monk using a Lancer wep when monk are about blunt DMG.

So Monk should only use Staff that look like polearm type and Hand to hand. Let's say samurai come out then they can use GK,Polearm,Bow. But allowing everyone to use any type of wep even if does not make sense with your job i find the dumbest idea and there a topic about that and they said that not how it going to be.

They should allow job to wear more then 1 type of wep only if they release the other following Wep that is missing from the game and should only make sense to that job to be using it. Monk --> Hand to hand ---> Long Staff PLD---> Sword / great sword.

Never played final fantasy tactics i guess? Using ''not for your class/job'' weapons made some of the most powerful combos in the game..
Bare fisted ninja ftw \o/

They havent given a lot of details on jobs so its hard to say how theyll end up being used shrug.
Altho being the random custom person that i am i will likely end up going with my weird class/job combo whether its solo or party content im facing~

[Seikninkuru]

I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately. We already know from developer letters and posts that a Job system is coming which will feature specialized combat roles. Once this system is implemented, there will be little to no reason to ever use a class role. Why would I play Gladiator when Paladin is better equipped to tank? Why even have the option to be a Marauder if I am fully expected to use Warrior in any and every combat situation? In short, the class system will go unused once we have access to jobs. Why should we bother keeping the class system in-game if it unnecessarily complicates things?

What I propose is the following:

A) All current classes are renamed as follows:

Gladiator → Paladin
Marauder → Warrior
Pugilist → Monk
Lancer → Dragoon
Thaumaturge → Black Mage
Conjurer → White Mage
Archer → Ranger

B) Class abilities are re-assigned as necessary. E.g. Black Mage would receive the nukes/debuffs from Conjurer, but the buff/heal spells would go to White Mage.

C) All references in-game to the previous classes are simply edited and updated. Guild names are updated, NPC references to classes are edited, etc.

I firmly believe that having a job-only system would be an improvement in every which way over the current plan of classes co-existing alongside jobs. For one, traditional job names are part of long-established "Final Fantasy" lore. This will make the game feel more familiar to all the FF fans out there. Secondly, I cannot fathom a single situation where we would want to be entering combat as a class rather than as a job.

The way I see it, the class system is a relic from the old-development direction of this game, and we no longer need it. I cannot see any cons to removing the class system. Cross-job abilities would need to be examined, but surely the cost of doing so is greatly compensated by the benefit of an elegant and simple system which, due to experience with FFXI, we KNOW will work.

Because I don't want to play one of the worst mmorpgs made to date, FFXI. You could always go and play that since you seem to like it so much. I'm here to play FF14, that has an armory system, please move along.

[Leeloo]

players dont need their hands to be held to choose the right job and class combination. Players can find out what works for party play, and solo..

I dunno...they couldn't handle the optimal rank gear stuff. They need SE to come in and set more gear restrictions. Momma SE will lay out tomorrow's clothes for you ahead of time so you don't have to worry about dressing yourself.

Or maybe that's more about not wanting to see kids in the lower grades wearing the same clothes as them. -shrugs-

[AJ_Anyia]

I think what has a lot of people up in arms about this is the "lack of definition" that the classes have because they can't say "we need you as this" because you can invite a CON or THM but have no idea what they have slotted for their actions. With a job system they can say "you come as this" because they know exactly what's going to be in there and it gives them peace of mind. So for the sake of taking away people's choices and substituting in a pseudo "peace of mind" and predictability in what people are is the vibe I'm feeling here.

You want the jobs and subjobs system from XI? Go play XI, it's still up and running and still has a decent population. I don't want XI-2, I don't want XI in HD, or any other variants. I know people are creatures of habit and don't like change but this is getting way out of hand. It's something new, it's something different, and no it isn't perfect. But instead of clamoring to go back to an old system try and perfect the new one and make it better than the old one. Things can't and won't get any better if you just stay with old things, you have to go out and explore and try new things. I will not speak for anyone else but myself, I respect other people's opinions, and they are your own. But if this turns into an XI clone, I'm freakin leaving because I played that game for years and want to play something new. Change is good people, it's not safe and familiar, but its still good.

[Bittereye]

I think it's so funny when you guys label Thaumaturge as a Black Mage and Conjurer as a White Mage. Banish I and II are White Mage spells but they are in the Thaumaturge arsenal. The flipside to that is the DoT's that the THM currently possesses are BLM spells. The Conjurer has all of the Elemental DoT's and DD spells, Fire, Water etc which are BLM spells. However, CON has the healing spells. THM and CON are a mix of both BLM and WHM together. In their current state they cannot make the name changes unless they move spells around. BLM should have Elemental spells, elemental DoT's, Bio etc. WHM should have your light spells like Dia, Banish, Healing spells and buffs.

[Chiz]

The thing I want changed the most about the current armoury system is Class=Weapon. It worries me that this will carry over to the Job System and that Job could also be tied to one weapon. I much preferred it in FFXI when each weapon individually listed what Jobs could equip it, so an RDM soloing would have a sword and shield then when they join a party the switch to a stave, DRK using Scythes, Great Swords, Axes and so on.

In FFXIV there is none of that because of how the stupid class and armoury system work. It also means that everytime they want to add a new weapon type they will have to come up with a whole new class to go with it and then a job to I guess. What if they decide that DRK is going to come from the Great Sword class does that mean I never get a Scythe unless I want to become a Botanist, guess that would also mean PLD won't be able to use a G.Sword too.

That's not entirely true about weapon restrictions. While the Armoury system and the weapon determining class is restrictive, its not quite as bad as you describe. For example, GLA already has access to both swords and daggers, two basic weapon types from XI. Its very possible SE adds Great Sword to either GLA or MRD in the future, or similarly one-hand axes to MRD to open up these options while maintaining the base class structure.

SE has also indicated some Jobs will be unlocked by meeting multiple class prerequisites, the example most often cited is Red Mage which will be spawned from CNJ and THM. So its entirely possible that RDM would be able to use any of the weapon types available to both of those classes. Similarly, DRK may be an amalgamation of GLA/MRD/THM so it may have access to all those weapon types along with Scythe. Pretty flexible imo.

[Seif]

I think it's so funny when you guys label Thaumaturge as a Black Mage and Conjurer as a White Mage. Banish I and II are White Mage spells but they are in the Thaumaturge arsenal. The flipside to that is the DoT's that the THM currently possesses are BLM spells. The Conjurer has all of the Elemental DoT's and DD spells, Fire, Water etc which are BLM spells. However, CON has the healing spells. THM and CON are a mix of both BLM and WHM together. In their current state they cannot make the name changes unless they move spells around. BLM should have Elemental spells, elemental DoT's, Bio etc. WHM should have your light spells like Dia, Banish, Healing spells and buffs.

Once I learned that in XIV I thought it is as an absolute heresy to the legacy of the entire franchise. BLM characters have always been my favourite characters but in XIV there is no BLM nor WHM just 2 shades of grey...

[Jennestia]

I think what has a lot of people up in arms about this is the "lack of definition" that the classes have because they can't say "we need you as this" because you can invite a CON or THM but have no idea what they have slotted for their actions. With a job system they can say "you come as this" because they know exactly what's going to be in there and it gives them peace of mind. So for the sake of taking away people's choices and substituting in a pseudo "peace of mind" and predictability in what people are is the vibe I'm feeling here.

You want the jobs and subjobs system from XI? Go play XI, it's still up and running and still has a decent population.

Telling us to go play XI instead of them doing what they should have done in the first place (Take what works and made it better) is a death wish on this already dying game. (No one can deny that XIV is on it's death bed and hoping that the PS3 version is what saves it, even SE says the PS3 is their second and final chance.)

Btw, they've been reintroducing some XI concepts..so are you going to quit if they continue to do so? You don't want an XI-2 but Anyia, your Elezen is a replica of one of the unique Elvaans from WoTG with minor aesthetic changes. No one wants a FFXI-2 but guess what most succession MMORPGs have? They have features from their previous MMO either redone, enhanced or overhauled, not scrapped. Lineage I - II didn't scrap much of anything, a lot more of it was enhanced than anything. EQ I > II enhanced a bit (and did some questionable changes). RO > RO2 is up in the air but they didn't scrap the basics like XIV did.

Even WoW took from it's RTS Warcraft series (let alone other MMOs at the time). Change is indeed good, but if what XIV changed was good, would it be banking on a second release to even be worth supporting? Let alone having to be overhauled?

[Forbin]

There is nothing FInal Fantasy about the current classes... NOTHING.. please find me an archer, a lancer or a gladiator in another FF.. OH WAIT THEY DON'T EXIST.. get rid of them.

[Jennestia]

There is nothing FInal Fantasy about the current classes... NOTHING.. please find me an archer, a lancer or a gladiator in another FF.. OH WAIT THEY DON'T EXIST.. get rid of them.

Lancer does (their Tactics iteration.) Basically what they tried with XIV was make a FF MMO that appeals to people who like generic MMORPGs, instead of what they did with FFXI, which was take the older FF games (specifically II and III) and bring it online.