Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Engineer]

Reason why they should not allow you to use other type of wep that does not make sense for your job is.

Mage would use a hand to hand would you really be attacking? nope your back line job.

If your a lancer and using hand to hand wep what the point? if your a pricing type? Same goes for monk using a Lancer wep when monk are about blunt DMG.

So Monk should only use Staff that look like polearm type and Hand to hand. Let's say samurai come out then they can use GK,Polearm,Bow. But allowing everyone to use any type of wep even if does not make sense with your job i find the dumbest idea and there a topic about that and they said that not how it going to be.

They should allow job to wear more then 1 type of wep only if they release the other following Wep that is missing from the game and should only make sense to that job to be using it. Monk --> Hand to hand ---> Long Staff PLD---> Sword / great sword.

But also i think that wont even happen due to the game being wep=class which = job if they change that rule then i see us wearing more then one type of wep.

For parties obviously no one should come as a BLM/PUG, but BLM/PUG would actually be really fun for soloing. Jobs should be left open to use with any class for the fun factor of soloing and testing strategies. Your restrictions would be unnecessary since players would be smart enough not to come into a party situation as a DRG/CON (lol), players dont need their hands to be held to choose the right job and class combination. Players can find out what works for party play, and solo..

[Felis]

I think the job system needs a COMPLETE overhaul.

Nothing need a overhaul what isn't ingame yet.

[Zenaku]

For parties obviously no one should come as a BLM/PUG, but BLM/PUG would actually be really fun for soloing. Jobs should be left open to use with any class for the fun factor of soloing and testing strategies. Your restrictions would be unnecessary since players would be smart enough not to come into a party situation as a DRG/CON (lol), players dont need their hands to be held to choose the right job and class combination. Players can find out what works for party play, and solo..

for soloing you have Class so i don't get this idea of using jobs as Soloing when jobs=party class=soloing due to them being allow to hybrid. So there no need for jobs having sub jobs when soloing would be best done with class

[odette]

in this time job system could work well without old sj system
in ffxi the sj system was bad
not versality and boring setup, if you are melee you need sj nin, else you can got invite
unballance things made sj system and meny people leave ffxi and prefer outhers mmorpg
actual class system is good, but need more role especiality

[Aeyis]

I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately.. Why should we bother keeping the class system in-game if it unnecessarily complicates things?

I cannot see any cons to removing the class system. Cross-job abilities would need to be examined, but surely the cost of doing so is greatly compensated by the benefit of an elegant and simple system which, due to experience with FFXI, we KNOW will work.

I might be mistaken, but isnt FFXI still around? If you want this game to be a clone of it, why not play FFXI itself instead degozaru?

Personally in my opinion i find the game feel already being much that of a FF game.
The class names? A number of FF games don't even have class names, while others sometimes have different names for one, or invent a new class alltogether.

I would even go as far as saying that classes being somewhat different is in itself one of the things that makes FF, Final Fantasy.

If you truly want to play this game and not FFXI degozaru, i would advise you to come up with suggestions that have merit either on its own, or based on this game, not some other game.

[Rhomagus]

You're right about that, but that's comparing "apples to oranges" or w/e the stupid saying is. I was comparing the two, relative to each genre: XI is to XIV as X is to XIII, for example. I don't, literally, want a sphere grid for XIV -like you said, XIV's class system is, virtually, a replica already. However, I *do want XIV to be as epic of an MMORPG, as X was an RPG. And, regardless of what everyone says, the XI job system > XIV class system, imo. It's one thing to allow "versatility," but it's another thing entirely to completely eradicate job/class uniqueness; and that's, exactly, what XIV has done. Why can't their be a middle-ground? It's always one extreme or the other -completely the same, or completely different. I agree w/ what this guy said earlier:

Except you said this:

The sphere-grid was absolutely perfect, but for some reason it was never re-introduced.

The only thing that has been "re-introduced" was Final Fantasy V's job system into Final Fantasy XI. XII's license board was influenced by X's sphere grid in legitimate terms. XIII's crystarium was influenced by X's sphere grid only in aesthetics. It was severely limited in comparison. You're right that it's comparing "apples to oranges" that is the correct saying, even though I don't agree with it either, but V was an offline game. Comparing those two would actually be comparing apples and oranges. The class system in XIV is actually making sure that it works in an MMO setting rather than a single player setting. For the players that understand it's mechanics, it does. Especially with the AP limit.

However, once again, let's not be extreme. Just because XI wasn't flawless doesn't mean you scrap it. In the words of Norman Osborne (Willem Dafoe) "BACK TO FORMULA?!?! *kills someone*." XI had it's issues, but it was a perfects system to use as a base. They could have found ways to make the jobs more diverse.

Extreme? They didn't scrap XI's system. Hell, they're bringing it back in the form of... what are they calling it again? Oh ya!

Jobs

Who the hell would do blm/war anyway Hawk -don't be a smart ass lol xD?

Someone who wanted to be a mage tank. That's the thing, being able to adapt, experimenting, and creating individual playstyles. I haven't seen those who are in favor of the class system dog the job system that is being introduced yet. I've only seen people who loathe the class system not be happy enough that it's called the job system and reworked from the ground up. It's totally unnecessary because they are fulfilling the legitimate demands from the playerbase. There is a growing population that wants to just log in for an hour or two each day, finish their stuff, and log off for the night. There is also a key population that relishes in the coordination required to topple bosses and wants a nostalgic identity within the community. The current team's proposal answers both needs.

Then there's the people who just want it to be called jobs. These people will never be satiated because they are choosing not to be. It's like complaining that you won a blue Bugatti when you wanted a silver one. Sometimes they like to dress up their complaints to seem like it's a gameplay issue, but they mainly use logical fallacies to do so. Like saying, a blue Bugatti isn't as fast because a silver car beat the land speed record.

The proposed job system being implemented is fine and fulfills the legitimate gameplay needs of many players. When it's introduced maybe we can look at what's overpowered and other balancing issues but philosophically it's a much better alternative than some of the close minded proposals in this thread.

[Zenaku]

We going back to hybrid BLM/Tank whitemage/DD that not what the jobs where made for remember everyone asked for more roles this is what jobs is if you want to tank and do all that cool stuff then solo and be on your class leave the job s to people who want to have a role and noting else but that type of role.

Pug would get monk then maybe also PUP as a pet job and even maybe a tank job role

[Rhomagus]

Actually, I "don't think." If more ppl would have "bashed" ideas before they came out, they might not have been such a massive, epic failure. And maybe Yoshi-P wouldn't have had such a horrible mess to clean up. They're not "bashing" it because they're upset with the imaginary system they envision being released. They're just making suggestions in a, somewhat, "hostile" way. It's stupid to wait for SE to mess up, and then have them try to fix what could have been prevented in the first place, "don't ya think?"

They did bash it. The problem wasn't the criticisms. The problem was the non negotiable closed nature of the former producer. Many players made legitimate complaints during beta and they released the game anyways. That is why Naoki Yoshida is here. He's much more open to player voices and has played other MMOs. It's not stupid to wait for them to mess up. It's stupid to assume that a system is going to be a certain way when you have no concrete basis to support the assumption. When someone makes suggestions that lack merit, they should be called out on it. That's why there are people arguing against the OP's proposal.

[AlexiaKidd]

The thing I want changed the most about the current armoury system is Class=Weapon. It worries me that this will carry over to the Job System and that Job could also be tied to one weapon. I much preferred it in FFXI when each weapon individually listed what Jobs could equip it, so an RDM soloing would have a sword and shield then when they join a party the switch to a stave, DRK using Scythes, Great Swords, Axes and so on.

In FFXIV there is none of that because of how the stupid class and armoury system work. It also means that everytime they want to add a new weapon type they will have to come up with a whole new class to go with it and then a job to I guess. What if they decide that DRK is going to come from the Great Sword class does that mean I never get a Scythe unless I want to become a Botanist, guess that would also mean PLD won't be able to use a G.Sword too.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately. We already know from developer letters and posts that a Job system is coming which will feature specialized combat roles. Once this system is implemented, there will be little to no reason to ever use a class role. Why would I play Gladiator when Paladin is better equipped to tank? Why even have the option to be a Marauder if I am fully expected to use Warrior in any and every combat situation? In short, the class system will go unused once we have access to jobs. Why should we bother keeping the class system in-game if it unnecessarily complicates things?

What I propose is the following:

A) All current classes are renamed as follows:

Gladiator → Paladin
Marauder → Warrior
Pugilist → Monk
Lancer → Dragoon
Thaumaturge → Black Mage
Conjurer → White Mage
Archer → Ranger

B) Class abilities are re-assigned as necessary. E.g. Black Mage would receive the nukes/debuffs from Conjurer, but the buff/heal spells would go to White Mage.

C) All references in-game to the previous classes are simply edited and updated. Guild names are updated, NPC references to classes are edited, etc.

I firmly believe that having a job-only system would be an improvement in every which way over the current plan of classes co-existing alongside jobs. For one, traditional job names are part of long-established "Final Fantasy" lore. This will make the game feel more familiar to all the FF fans out there. Secondly, I cannot fathom a single situation where we would want to be entering combat as a class rather than as a job.

The way I see it, the class system is a relic from the old-development direction of this game, and we no longer need it. I cannot see any cons to removing the class system. Cross-job abilities would need to be examined, but surely the cost of doing so is greatly compensated by the benefit of an elegant and simple system which, due to experience with FFXI, we KNOW will work.

Another big reason is because this is not FFXI. Personally I love the base classes and with the upcoming changes it even though only limited to one job at first they will all receive 2 if not 3 jobs per class. Then you also have the base class which is better to use while soloing. I firmly believe more options is always better and that is what we are getting.