o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Okiura]

Well sorel the thing about local's is that eventual they become less and less effective as a means to progress the further you take up your craft. There are so many locals to take when your lower ranked they really start to dry up once you get closer and closer to 40. at that point if you want to progress at a reasonable pace (ie not take a month to hit rank up once) you will need to grind. And that's the place where most of the debate is focused on.

currently if you want to progress "quickly" and not run your self into the poor house at higher ranks you spam part synths until whats left of your brain leaks out of your ears, Npc the results and do it again untill your iq drops another 5 points. and its that safety blanket being taken away that's causing the fuss.

this is incorrect grinding on parts in not the basses of this argument, there will always be a synth to grind on if you want to lvl up. the reason myself and most other are against Yoshi change is that the real issues are not being addressed. lack of a good buy/sell system and a tidus and unfriendly mini game to complete a synth to name just 2.

no one aggrees theat the current system should remain in place cos it is flawed in many ways, we want to see part remain in the recipes because it is good system to have in place. the parts system needs to change and i know there is 500+ posts and i don't expect anyone to read them all, but if you go back and read a few you will see what we really want. we want to make the crafting system simpler and more accessable to every one on in a way that both ppl for and againts the changes will be happy with. using parts to grind has been brout up but you putting it in the wrong contex, take those parts away and ppl new to crafting will get more streesed because of lrss items to skill up on ppl adept to crafting will already know what works so this won't affect them much at all.

[zaviermhigo]

The part system isn't bad but while some people think Yoshi thinks we're dumb, I think those same people forget new people will have to play this game for it to survive. Remember starting out crafting? Remember trying to make a robe or w/e it was and the main part you need for the synth is 5 levels higher or more than the synth itself. It was extrememly difficult to make gear or weapons, and it should be difficult but at lower levels its almost gimping what you can do. Removal of parts makes it simpler for now, materia will probably add complexity and newer people who want to try to craft can now make something without giving up in frustration. Crafting isn't for "lemme grind on cloth till I hit max level", its "lemme see if I can make this gear", for me as a weaver it was frustrating needing a part that was 10 levels higher than the actual synth, that doesn't make sense in anyway.

[Okiura]

The only thing posted on changes for crafting are directly affecting recipes as of right now. Most of the features and details on the rest of the changes have not been posted. The developers know the issues with the craft system, as it is all over the place with threads since the forums were created.

The repetitive crafting process is one part of whats wrong with the craft system as it is right now. With an engaging mini game set in place, that doesnt take away the fact that you need to spend 15 - 30 minutes for one single piece of a finished product, doesnt take away the fact that for higher level recipes you need different crafts ranked at high levels, instead of having it designed that the extra crafts would offer support and even ensure higher chances yielding high quality items, the system is set up as a requirement to craft the piece of gear, leaving people with less time no option to craft at all.

wait for all the details are up and implemented and then we provide feedback. The developers have already acknowledge the issue with the craft UI, I dont understand why anyone would bring that up when what is being discussed is changes in recipes.

he brought it up because unlike youself lots ppl for the change don't understand where the problem with crafting lies they think that removing the part system is a magic fix and crafting will be perfect after, it's nice to see someone who understands the fault of the current system put their PoV across.

[Okiura]

The part system isn't bad but while some people think Yoshi thinks we're dumb, I think those same people forget new people will have to play this game for it to survive. Remember starting out crafting? Remember trying to make a robe or w/e it was and the main part you need for the synth is 5 levels higher or more than the synth itself. It was extrememly difficult to make gear or weapons, and it should be difficult but at lower levels its almost gimping what you can do. Removal of parts makes it simpler for now, materia will probably add complexity and newer people who want to try to craft can now make something without giving up in frustration. Crafting isn't for "lemme grind on cloth till I hit max level", its "lemme see if I can make this gear", for me as a weaver it was frustrating needing a part that was 10 levels higher than the actual synth, that doesn't make sense in anyway.

exactly what we been saying for 500+ posts, parts system = good, mats used in parts system/finial synth not logical and make crafting harder then it needs should be. this is what need to be addressed with the recipes.

well said

[Synthesis]

I think material which has no more purpose (since repairs are done by dark matter) should be implented as well. Some things are for nothing now.

[Griss]

he brought it up because unlike youself lots ppl for the change don't understand where the problem with crafting lies they think that removing the part system is a magic fix and crafting will be perfect after, it's nice to see someone who understands the fault of the current system put their PoV across.

Don't necessarily disagree here okiura. Have said many, many times that while the mini game is fun for a while it ceases to be so after you have spent a while with it. then again the same can be said about most things becoming boring and mind numbing through bulk repetition. And your right the state of the back and forth has changed since i last posted in the thread.

But to those that want the system as a whole to remain as is and want the dev's to change the crafting mini game.
Mark my words, even if they were to totaly revamp the mini game and I'm talking a total change be it to randomly connecting pipes or even to something along the lines of the dol mini-games. With in a month or two there you would be right back to the same place of "crafting being boring and repetitive". Want a really big hint to why that would be and what would be at the root of increased fatigue and burnout on the system use? Well it just might have something to do with there being 6-7 sub synths involved with making a simple leather belt from scratch.

The whole darn mess needs to be reworked, and the work has to start somewhere. tackling the recipe side first (the bigger of the two monsters) seems like a good a place as any to me.

[DAOWAce]

Hey look, another drastic change that didn't need to be included in the game when all that needed to be done was REFINE current systems.

I voted for drastic changes on the poll way back, but I didn't vote expecting the game to be dumbed down and revert to its prequel, which I quit for a reason.

Why do I even bother hoping anymore..

[Blue79]

Overkill IMO, players who like to craft solely, also like it a bit complicated then just Iron + Iron = Excalibur!

Abolishment of Parts from Synthesis - Doomed
Revisions to Materials and Intermediary Materials - Some Bad
Removal of Secondary Skill Requirements - Neutral
Removal of Crafting Facility and Treatise Requirements - Neutral
Simplified Color Customization - Good

Completely agree, for people who love crafting this is overkill!
They could've solved the problem by simply giving us bags and or a bank/mog house storage. It's not a problem having parts in the game so long as they don't take up 80% of your inventory (inc retainers). I don't even mind a dozen dyes and enamels so long as i can toss them all in a bag and only use up 1 space... but of course, SE can always be counted on to look at a simple solution and ignore it

[Okiura]

Don't necessarily disagree here okiura. Have said many, many times that while the mini game is fun for a while it ceases to be so after you have spent a while with it. then again the same can be said about most things becoming boring and mind numbing through bulk repetition. And your right the state of the back and forth has changed since i last posted in the thread.

But to those that want the system as a whole to remain as is and want the dev's to change the crafting mini game.
Mark my words, even if they were to totaly revamp the mini game and I'm talking a total change be it to randomly connecting pipes or even to something along the lines of the dol mini-games. With in a month or two there you would be right back to the same place of "crafting being boring and repetitive". Want a really big hint to why that would be and what would be at the root of increased fatigue and burnout on the system use? Well it just might have something to do with there being 6-7 sub synths involved with making a simple leather belt from scratch.

The whole darn mess needs to be reworked, and the work has to start somewhere. tackling the recipe side first (the bigger of the two monsters) seems like a good a place as any to me.

i fully agree with this, my complaint on the recpie side is there addressing the wrong issue there. you should be able to make parts with almost all raw mats then tie them all together in the final synth, the need to do little fiddley bits like a belt buckle is over kill. atm it is raw mats > ingot > plate > buckle just for a part, personally i like it like that and my ideal non mmo rpg would work like this, but in the mmo world i can see it's too much it's the parts recpies that i feel they should be addressing and not removing them all together.

Edit: using a belt as a example was porb not my best decsion what i'm saying is making a buckle for say a front part is a step too far, stop @ the plate stage and use that instead althouh this may only seem like 1 less stage a plate is more universal and can be used in lot of other synths where a buckle is normaly specific to only 1.

[darkstarpoet1]

atm it is raw mats > ingot > plate > buckle just for a part, personally i like it like that and my ideal non mmo rpg would work like this, but in the mmo world i can see it's too much it's the parts recpies that i feel they should be addressing and not removing them all together.

you realize that is an incorrect statement. yes it makes the buckle, but it makes so much more than 1 buckle. you can also buy most buckles in the wards for quite less than it would cost you to synth to make just 1. the reason is anything is cheaper when mass produced.

4 ores makes 12 nuggets.
3 nuggets makes 12 squares
you make an extra synth and you have 24

now you have 6 nuggets and 24 squares.

you take 1 nugget and 2 squares to make 12 buckles.

you have plenty of mats to do that 6 times and you would actually have 72 buckles and 12 squares at the end of that synth. you do not use that to make 1 because if you only want 1 it's cheaper to buy one buckle. you need 1 buckle so you have now created 71 buckles and 12 squares to make profit off into the wards system so you not only make the piece you need, but wound up with extra gil afterwards.