As a tank, what should I know/do to make it easier on Healer?

[416to305]

2) The WHM has to stand still to cast, so it can't be cast while moving. If you want SS, wait for the healer to cast it, then move. If they seem to be hesitating, they might be waiting for a cooldown to finish. SSII without Swiftcast takes 6 seconds.

If you Swiftcast first then you can Stoneskin II while moving, I do it all the time since 90% of tanks finish a pull and just run off before you can cast SS again.

[KisaiTenshi]

If you Swiftcast first then you can Stoneskin II while moving, I do it all the time since 90% of tanks finish a pull and just run off before you can cast SS again.

I didn't go into details because I didn't want to write a 3 page novel of a post that would just get skipped over. >50% of the time swift+SSII fails to fire, if by that time the tank has moved out of your range, you end up SS'ing yourself and maybe the DPS. Hence, the tank should WAIT for SS if they want it, or they will not be getting it.

I've had enough runs in export roulette where the tank runs off the second they get the chance to, including the ones that chain-pull which makes SSII unable to be cast.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I didn't go into details because I didn't want to write a 3 page novel of a post that would just get skipped over. >50% of the time swift+SSII fails to fire, if by that time the tank has moved out of your range, you end up SS'ing yourself and maybe the DPS. Hence, the tank should WAIT for SS if they want it, or they will not be getting it.

I've had enough runs in export roulette where the tank runs off the second they get the chance to, including the ones that chain-pull which makes SSII unable to be cast.

Well, you're just making up random excuses now. Tank running out of range? Stoneskin II has 15y range, the same as Medica. With Swiftcast you can move along with the tank too. If not Stoneskin II, use Stoneskin instead as that has 30 yalm range towards the target. If you'd want to re-stoneskin the entire party pre-position yourself or walk along/sprint while Swiftcast is still on. Any more excuses?

[KisaiTenshi]

Well, you're just making up random excuses now. Tank running out of range? Stoneskin II has 15y range, the same as Medica. With Swiftcast you can move along with the tank too. If not Stoneskin II, use Stoneskin instead as that has 30 yalm range towards the target. If you'd want to re-stoneskin the entire party pre-position yourself or walk along/sprint while Swiftcast is still on. Any more excuses?

Swiftcast doesn't affect movement. The fact is
- Tanks run off without waiting. There is no reason for this at all. If they run off and Swift+SSII fires with them out of range, now the CD is also blown.

And quit being rude while you are at it.

[Cynfael]

Swiftcast doesn't affect movement.

Not trying to jump on you here, but since Swiftcast allows you to cast without stopping, it's pretty safe to assert that it affects movement.

[KisaiTenshi]

Not trying to jump on you here, but since Swiftcast allows you to cast without stopping, it's pretty safe to assert that it affects movement.

Swiftcast has no bearing on anything but the next spell hence "it affects nothing". You have to stop to cast everything, because all casts are interrupted by movement. Part of the illusion that you aren't stopping when you Swift+anything is the same as Regen and Aero, there is no "cast time", hence you stop for time that effectively zero.

Do I need to get out a video?

The Swift+SSII Macro fails more often than it should, so the CD for Swiftcast is blown already:
https://youtu.be/xj_3DVJAj0M?t=379



And the second there are enemies, it fails to execute as well.
https://youtu.be/xj_3DVJAj0M?t=1263



In the first case, prepping for the first boss, the Tank waited. In the second case, the tank did NOT wait. Let's ignore the part about the tank wearing at least one ilevel 55 gear part.

If you are chasing after a tank, and he has aggro, you CAN NOT CAST IT. Therefor the TANK MUST STOP and NOT ENGAGE anything if they want it, otherwise we are going without it.

I just wonder what you, as healer, like to see from tanks that make it easier on you and in your opinion make a run go smoothly?

The OP was asking what would make things easier to make things go smoothly, not debate what the healer could do to to save a tank who is making things needlessly harder.

Therefor:
a) If you want Stoneskin II cast, wait for it. If the healer is hesitating, it's likely because of the Swiftcast cooldown.
b) If you want Stoneskin II cast between every pull, just stop and wait for it. More than half the time it's not being cast because you as the tank have started moving towards another pull, that signals that you don't want it. In that case the healer will save Swiftcast for something else like Holy.

A healer can attempt to cast it before the tank gets to the next pull, but one of two things usually happens:
1. The Tank moves out of range and doesn't get SSII'd
2. The Tank engaged a target and canceled the SSII cast entirely.

That's why we cast it before the boss fights, but even then, there are tanks who will just engage the boss without waiting for MP/TP to recover. Don't be that guy. Once the boss is engaged, it can't be cast.

That's like FAQ #1 when running Praetorium
"Stoneskin II?" - "Can't, because all the mobs we skipped still have aggro."

[Mhiro]

Gonna just slip in here before I head to work--

The best way to make things easier for your healer in a dungeon (especially one you're new in) is to:

-Focus on playing your role. I'm sure just like here in the healer forums you'll find tank threads talking about playing DPS a lot in content that doesn't call for it. There are situations where this is okay and some where it is not. It may look fun, but don't take that mindset from a thread meant for off tanking/some parts of raiding and bring it to a 4-man dungeon where people are (especially your healer) are new.

- If you want your buffs, wait for them. I cannot stress this enough. As someone who likes to maximize everyone's buffs at the start of a dungeon and before every boss fight/after wipes, I do not like seeing the tank start skipping off into the distance without protect. It bothers the living hell out of me. I've personally gotten to the point where if I see the tank running after the barrier drops and they or any lemming-esque DPS misses it, I'll assume they don't want it and not cast again until the final boss. Simple as that. But that's just me, and I'm good enough to heal dumbasses without their buffs to keep their mouths shut (great training exercise for me heh).

- Use cooldowns on all large pulls even in dungeons more than 20 item levels weaker than you. Got a story about this one. Went into Wanderer's Palace normal and the tank accepts buffs and runs off from start to door. Not a single buff was popped. Not even Hollowed Ground. He dropped in 0.0002 seconds after stopping. Didn't apologize but said he'd assumed that in his level 110 capped gear he should be able to pull on pure defense. You cannot pull on pure defense in any dungeon, especially not when there is a level cap present. You may get away with less cooldowns in some, but defense doesn't work in this game like it does in FFXI plus the "Physical Damage Taken Down" stat doesn't exist. Don't experiment like that idiot.

- Don't assume the dungeon will be carried by the healer because they're the best geared. You don't know their situation, the state of their internet connection, the type of healer they are, or whether or not they're all there. Don't examine them, see the weapon and think "Oh okay, I can pull extra because they're good". Stick to what you're comfortable with and pull at your own pace. Don't let the healer's gear dictate it. God knows you'll probably piss them off if they happen to not be in the mood for a speed run. You also need to include your DPS in on this. Your healer being a WHM does not equal speed runs if your DPS are two monks.

- If you die, shrug it off and move on with your life. People make mistakes. Macros get messed up. Who cares. Only care if it starts to get excessive. Don't grow up to be a prick. Also have fun.

That is all!

[Cynfael]

Swiftcast has no bearing on anything but the next spell hence "it affects nothing". You have to stop to cast everything, because all casts are interrupted by movement. Part of the illusion that you aren't stopping when you Swift+anything is the same as Regen and Aero, there is no "cast time", hence you stop for time that effectively zero.

Do I need to get out a video?

What are you on about? Of course you can't SS II players in combat....

You said that Swiftcast doesn't affect movement, which simply isn't true. At no point do you have to stop moving to cast spells with "instant" cast times. There is no "illusion".

Even if you want to make this about aggro (which is a different issue), you wouldn't be trying to land SS II between dungeon pulls, anyway. All you need is to SS the tank, which you can regardless of in-combat status.

On an tangential note, why on earth would you need to macro SC with SS?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Clearly you didn't read anything I said in the thread then, because every single time I mentioned swiftcast it was in the context of SSII. Lyrica is the one making the suggestion of landing SSII and SS between pulls while the tank is running off. I think it's just pointless to try and cast SSII if the tank is moving, because either the tank runs out of range of SSII, or they aggro something and that cancels the SSII cast, SC or not.

Swiftcast does not affect YOUR movement at all, it's not a dang movement buff. It affects the Spell cast speed to zero. So if you were moving there's NO CAST TIME to cancel.

And clearly you aren't reading either.

Stoneskin II has 15y range, the same as Medica. With Swiftcast you can move along with the tank too. If not Stoneskin II, use Stoneskin instead as that has 30 yalm range towards the target. If you'd want to re-stoneskin the entire party pre-position yourself or walk along/sprint while Swiftcast is still on.

As a bonus:

Is anyone in this thread is even reading the linked posts, let alone anything in the thread.

You, KisaiTenshi, are asking if anyone in this thread is actually reading what's being posted?

On the topic of movement. Yes, it does affect your movement. It doesn't make you faster, it definitely makes you more mobile. Or are you going to claim that you can't cast stoneskin II with swiftcast on while running next to the tank?

[KisaiTenshi]

And clearly you aren't reading either.

It seems like you and Cynfael seem to be searching for my posts specifically to reply to them without even reading the thread they are in.

On the topic of movement. Yes, it does affect your movement. It doesn't make you faster, it definitely makes you more mobile. Or are you going to claim that you can't cast stoneskin II with swiftcast on while running next to the tank?

I never said that you couldn't. I said the tank NEEDS TO STOP and NOT ENGAGE if they want SSII to be cast.

- You can't cast SSII once they pull
- You can't cast SSII if they are chain pulling.
- There is no need for the tank to be impatient and take off the second the duty starts after viewing a cutscene.
- And there is no reason for the Tank to start the boss room without waiting for SSII, The healer doesn't even need to waste SC if the tank will just wait 6 seconds.