Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

[FallenArisen0990]

[Samcaesar]

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Parry, have a little empathy, some folks want to play girl characters and not have to worry about looking like eye candy all the time. What one person sees as whining, others see as as a reasonable complaint. I mean, seriously, how would you feel if I stepped into every thread asking for something or talking about a complaint and said "Stop whining"?

What you're suggesting is going into the thread asking SE to stop RMT and saying "If you want do deal with RMT, deal with it. If you want to ignore them, do it. If you don't like RMT, don't play FFXIV or turn on /busy."

[Reinha]

Well, what else do you want? Cleavage showing? Plenty of cloth gear for that. Tight cloths? Plenty of cloth options for that as well. It's armor, it's not suppose to show curves. If you want something to show curves, please go with a plethora of glamour sets that we've got. Even the High Allagan set isn't that tight and has some bulk to it. Like.. How would you even go about showing the curves unless if you want to remove what makes armor armor (IE protective plating).

You tell others to progress to modern day but you're still stuck in the notion that showing skin is required to look feminine.

Here's two examples that don't show different amounts of skin and are still different between genders. It's easy to show the hourglass figure of females while keeping them in full armor. This is what a lot of people want. (Some would like some sexy armor too, I repeat armor not beach gear, but I realize we are in the minority.) Who made you the equipment police since you so boldly claim to know what armor is supposed to look like?

[Babette]

Aion is way much better than FF for skins.. You can not compare them both.
In FF male and female have merely the same skin all the way long (it's easier, and it requires less work for SE), while NCSoft created skins for males, and skins for females.

[Samcaesar]

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Whenever the basis of the thread is "Please don't make the girl's DRK AF like the girl's DRG AF SE" and a good bit of people respond with "No that's dumb!! Armor for girls must show the belly hole because it's feminine and that's the way armor for girls should be!" I'm working to what people say. And again, armor isn't meant to look masculine or feminine, it's armor, which is meant to protect you, not show off all your curves and what not. If you want skin tight outfits that show off curves, go with a set that isn't meant to protect your body from attacks.

But seriously please, explain to me your concept of "Feminine" armor is so we can continue discussing within a slightly different context. If it's skin tight metal, which outside of that just looking ridiculous, then how is it any different than "Showing some skin", because to me it seems like it's just showing some very shiny skin if that's that case.

A practical idea of how armor works? Less metal means it's easier to cut through. Look at the first set of "Feminine" armor design you linked from.. Aion I suppose it is as someone else commented? With exception of the pauldrons, every bit of it is much thinner on the girl model than the male. Or how it purposely shows off the girl's jawline, while on the male model their face is more concealed with those (Albeit too large) additions to the helm. Looking at the second set, the men have an entire layer of metal covering their legs while the girls have skintight boots and high heels, but the two sets seem much more fair in the look intended (IE showing off the skin without pulling the zipper down to the girl's belly button while the guys have everything zipped up nicely and securely.) I have far less of an issue with the second set simply due to the fact that it's focused on a motif (Leather clad attractive badass) than I am with the first set because it's suppose to be armor, which less metal and more form fitting means it's less protective.

To bring in a game I absolutely adore and it's take on armor, Dark Souls. http://i.imgur.com/U3Mgz.jpg (Ignoring the clipping issues, as it's just how games are) This is an armor set in the game (Coincidentally worn by arguably the most powerful character in the game) It's purpose? To protect the person wearing it, as armor ought to be. Now, that's not to say I'm saying "Every set ought to look super bland and boring and only make 150% sense!", because this is fantasy after all. What I am saying is that whenever sets have ridiculous things added or remove more sensible things, it should be the case for whatever model you use in the game.

So again, armor isn't meant to be "masculine" or "feminine" it's suppose to provide the most protection to your body. In fantasy, feel free to do whatever ridiculous thing you want to it, but if it's going to make sense on the male model (Or make little sense on the girls model) it ought to be equal for both sides.

[Alacran]

I see this thread going on well after we get an official screen of a female in Dark Knight AF, though i think with six days left before early access it couldn't hurt to allay one or the other groups concerns. With events planned on the 16th through the 18th here's to hoping for new info soon.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Siegmeyer is hardly the post powerful character in DkS, though x) And even as I agree with you, I'd like to argue that male and female armors are not to ne designed the same way because the bodies that will wear them will be different. Men are (post of the times, naturally) stronger and heavier while women are more flexible and so. There are anatomic differences between the two of them.

Sometimes, it dors not have any impact on the final armor, because the fighting style requires common qualities for the two genders (for exemple Siegmeyer and his daughter's armor are the same because they have the exact same style), but sometimes, given that there are things men can do that most women can't do (and the other way around), the armors need to be different.

I had the idea that female DRG try to avoid and hit while male DRG try to endure and hit, given the high level of flexibility and agility that one has to have to master the DRG style, which may advantage women when it comes to avoidance. That explains why men have chainmails while women have not : It reduces the flexibility but enables to endure more violent hits.

In FFXIV, there's little to no difference between male and female gear (lvl 1 craft gear excepted), and the only big differences can be explaind with the lore, as I did with the DRG. I'm sure there will be no difference between male and female DRK AF, and if there is one, that it will be properly justified in terms of fighting style.

[Samcaesar]

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Not Siegmeyer, but his daughter, Sieglinde. Being a human with permanent death and she manages to make it to the Ashen Lake, she is without a doubt one of the more powerful characters in Dark Souls. Getting to the Duke's Archives where she was imprisoned isn't an easy task, not for undead and especially not for a mortal. Strength and flexibility rely on so many factors besides just sex. Genetics, hormonal levels (A girl can have higher levels of testosterone, thusly develop muscles easier for example), how much and what sort of exercises that you do as some factors that contribute it. Consider this as well, should girl Roegadyn have armor more suited for men? They're a good bit more muscular and larger several of the men in game. Alternatively, should Lalafell armor look different simply because they're boy/girl? Why would a girl Lalafell wear bellyhole armor considering they look exactly the same as the boy Lalafell, sans facial hair?

Of course not, armor will function like armor. The Catarina armor and it's robust round design is meant to reflect swords and arrows by redirecting them, it's wonderful armor once you get past it's silly appearance. Considering Dark Knights will do as Dark Knights will do, which seems to be take hits, deal hits, use flashy weird darkness magic, why bother making them armor different? A man can be just as swift and flexible as a woman, and the alternative, a woman being as strong as a man, is quite true as well. Plus, this is a world where Aether exists, has many properties, and is quite literally the liveblood of the world. It becomes increasingly clear that there is.. Out of lore reasons for having things like the belly hole on Dragoons whenever the statement that "Oh well they can use Aether bursts/Dragon power to enhance their abilities to dodge so they don't need armor!" can be considered, yet the men lack belly holes.

A Dragoon is going to fight like a dragoon, boy or girl, and considering they're doing a thing like fighting dragons, you'd want armor that'd make sense for fighting ferocious beings with sharp claws. So the question is, why bother enduring the hit when you can just avoid it all together? Alternatively, why risk less protection if you might get hit? No way "innate" differences between men and women would cause that much of a difference in fighting techniques, otherwise you might as well not call them the same thing. DRG dodge all the same, get hit all the same, and they taste floor and get eaten by dragons all the same. Lore can only go so far, and whenever they're logical inconsistencies, like "Why don't DRGs just use aether/dragon power for bursts of speed? They seem to use that power of a dragon for immense jumping height, guy or girl, why not dodging in both cases?" then lore starts to become less of a reason, and more of an excuse.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Yes, women can be stronger than men, men can be more flexible than women, but...

There's a difference in the biochemistry of men and women. Men tend to grow muscles, muscles meant to give raw strength, easier than women. The skeleton differs as well and thus, men and women do not have the same flexibility. It all depends on the puberty, bone growth, and so on. Men and women are not equal. That doesn't mean one is weaker than another, or anything, but they're not the same thing.

Then, why do lalas have the hole as well, and why do roe too ? First of all, we don't know much about the bone structure of roegadyns, or the lalas'... Maybe there's differences as well, maybe there's not... But closing the hole for a race or another would use too much storage space. That's a hardware limitation, not a lore point, and that's sad, but we're always under the limitations of the game.

And that's basic statistics. Maybe they tried closing the hole for both, closing it for both, and they came to the conclusion that giving a hole to women and not to men would be less dangerous. Men and women can't fight the exact same way, most of the time. Yet, they're still doing the same job : Dragoon, because the differences are subtiles, but they do exist.

And even if this is not a DkS forum... Sieglinde is hardly the most powerful as well... Yes, she achieved to get there, but Tarkus (not sure of his name) achieved to arrive in Anor Londo without being an undead either... There are many characters impressive, but the most powerful of them all is clearly Artorias.

[IzVale]

That female one is stunning!! I WANT IT *_*