so I got kicked today for...

[RiceisNice]

...

You're still not helping the overall situation though is what I'm saying. Maybe you wouldn't have been too slow if you had access to summoner abilties and used an actual dps pet. In the end when it boils down to that, you're a dps that's not dpsing. I mean you even know this and admitted that you'd run into problems, you should be expecting this sort of flank for playing an arcanist with topaz; I don't understand why you find the need to need to vent about that after getting kicked for purposely not pulling your weight.

You would've probably saved the group anyway if you were pulling your weight in damage to get those hourglasses down with the occasional raises (because a summoner can raise just as well as an arcanist) . The bottom line is that you're not more than likely not capable of so because you don't have the means to.

[Gamer3427]

Words.

I'm honestly tired of trying to defend my DPS. I still do far more DPS in my current play style than most of the SMNs and BRDs I've seen, as well as a good portion of the NIN I'm constantly having to raise. You're assuming that I have the lowest DPS simply because of my role is part of the problem I'm getting at. I may have lower potential DPS than others, but in practice I put out more than most, because I take the time to learn and study my rotation, and put out full effort when implementing it, rather than the way most DPS play. I'm also consistently one of the last if not the last person alive when groups I'm in face a full party wipe. This is in no small part thanks to the defensive and healing buffs that my style offers me in comparison to others......

EDIT: My point in this is that I'm starting to get quite annoyed with people such as you that completely dismiss an idea because it's "not how it's done", without giving it a fair chance. The bottom line is that while I may end up having issues with content I've yet to try, so far with the content I have tried, I've seen very few SMNs who can outdo me in an actual run, and with the exception of maybe one or two, that is purely in burst DPS rather than consistent survivability and constant DPS throughout the run. If I do have issues in content later on, then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it......

About the above post: What about SCH? (since they're the mostly healer counterpart to SMN)

I do in fact use SCH as a secondary class when I'm running the DF on old dungeons to speed it up, or when I'm helping friends with their relics. But after trying to heal WoD with a bad group once. Never again.......

EDITING THIS IN HERE BECAUSE I'VE REACHED MY DAILY POST LIMIT:

the adds will do evil eye which will chunk your party if they don't die fast enough.[/B]

It wasn't the adds that were killing people. It was the Light/Dark switch, and the Doomgaze. We didn't even get the adds out before half the group was down......

[RiceisNice]

...

See, this what I don't understand. You play like a scholar, but you don't want to queue as a scholar. You keep saying that you're the one pulling the group through, when chances are, you're also contributing to why the group is falling so behind in the first place; again using the first WoD boss as an example, the adds will do evil eye which will chunk your party if they don't die fast enough. I could be the last person alive in the party for all I care, it means jack shite if its because the fight is taking too long to finish because overall dps is low.

I can appreciate you trying to play the class differently, but it gets kind of frustrating when you keep defending yourself as this guy who does above-and-beyond to pull their group through. Don't victimize yourself and expect people to ostracize you or even kick you for something like this. I'm sorry but this is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to people.


tl;dr : If you're doing something that you know is going to annoy/go against people; Whether its going into a raid as a jobless class and playing inefficiently, or using RP macros after being told to stop, expect opposition. It's hard to sympathize with people when they knowingly/willingly do this.

[kyuven]

I'm honestly tired of trying to defend my DPS. I still do far more DPS in my current play style than most of the SMNs and BRDs I've seen

You'd do MORE DPS if you ran as a summoner, or more utility/heals if you ran as a scholar.
It doesn't matter if you're "better" than someone else, you're purposely playing with a stacked deck against yourself.
You're doing decent DPS, that's fine (though outdamaging a bard is nothing to write home about) but you're purposefully and knowingly gimping yourself and thus, your raid. You're trying to "non-specialize" in a game with streamlined classes.

[Whiteroom]

You'd do MORE DPS if you ran as a summoner, or more utility/heals if you ran as a scholar.
It doesn't matter if you're "better" than someone else, you're purposely playing with a stacked deck against yourself.
You're doing decent DPS, that's fine (though outdamaging a bard is nothing to write home about) but you're purposefully and knowingly gimping yourself and thus, your raid. You're trying to "non-specialize" in a game with streamlined classes.

He has a whole thread for this topic, with every valid and invalid argument put to him. You won't be changing his mind at all. It would be nice if he acceptted that things like that kick will happen because of it, but his loss for not being able to, not yours.

[VirusChris]

You're still not helping the overall situation though is what I'm saying. Maybe you wouldn't have been too slow if you had access to summoner abilties and used an actual dps pet. In the end when it boils down to that, you're a dps that's not dpsing. I mean you even know this and admitted that you'd run into problems, you should be expecting this sort of flank for playing an arcanist with topaz; I don't understand why you find the need to need to vent about that after getting kicked for purposely not pulling your weight.

You would've probably saved the group anyway if you were pulling your weight in damage to get those hourglasses down with the occasional raises (because a summoner can raise just as well as an arcanist) . The bottom line is that you're not more than likely not capable of so because you don't have the means to.

What? What, what, what? Hold on a second how exactly wasn't he pulling his own weight?

That's nothing. I was running WoD once and got a really bad group. We very nearly wiped during the Ahriman fight, and the only reason we didn't is because I had to spend most of the fight reviving our healers and tanks, (across the entire alliance), rather than DPSing.

Did you guys not read this part? The Tanks and Healers were dropping like flies and it was all 3 alliances and he was doing his best to revive them and heal them with the Weakness debuff on them and their TP and MP on low reserves... they're going to have a rough time without some backup or support and it seems like he was helping them stay alive during the fight otherwise it was going to be a wipe.

snip.

No one killed hourglasses and they manage to clear the fight it seems. Sure it was a rough start, but he was keeping the team afloat and had to discard DPSing to do it.

You'd do MORE DPS if you ran as a summoner, or more utility/heals if you ran as a scholar.
It doesn't matter if you're "better" than someone else, you're purposely playing with a stacked deck against yourself.
You're doing decent DPS, that's fine (though outdamaging a bard is nothing to write home about) but you're purposefully and knowingly gimping yourself and thus, your raid. You're trying to "non-specialize" in a game with streamlined classes.

Excuse me? Again did you not read the part where all the Tanks and Healers in all 3 alliances dropped? He went out of his way to pick them back up and it wasn't hourglass that killed them, mostly Doom as they weren't watching the Mortal Gaze move.

See, this what I don't understand. You play like a scholar, but you don't want to queue as a scholar. You keep saying that you're the one pulling the group through, when chances are, you're also contributing to why the group is falling so behind in the first place; again using the first WoD boss as an example, the adds will do evil eye which will chunk your party if they don't die fast enough. I could be the last person alive in the party for all I care, it means jack shite if its because the fight is taking too long to finish because overall dps is low.

I can appreciate you trying to play the class differently, but it gets kind of frustrating when you keep defending yourself as this guy who does above-and-beyond to pull their group through. Don't victimize yourself and expect people to ostracize you or even kick you for something like this. I'm sorry but this is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to people.

Wow, yeah. Um... I rather have a teammate help out their team when the tables turn on them when we lose a Tank or Healer by an unfortunate event and support them until they can get back to doing their job when their reserves are back to optimal levels and depending on the situation focus on helping the team before going back to add unless the add or mechanic is going to do major damage then the focus back on that.

[DGladius]

Did you guys not read this part? The Tanks and Healers were dropping like flies and it was all 3 alliances and he was doing his best to revive them and heal them with the Weakness debuff on them and their TP and MP on low reserves... they're going to have a rough time without some backup or support and it seems like he was helping them stay alive during the fight otherwise it was going to be a wipe.

.

He can use raise on being either summoner or scholar. Rather than being an arcanist and playing summoner he can put out more dps. As dps you should always maximize dps as much as possible. If he was scholar he would actually provide actual healing and put out decent dps if he wanted.

And yeah macros on attacks when it's not needed is annoying to me.

[VirusChris]

He can use raise on being either summoner or scholar. Rather than being an arcanist and playing summoner he can put out more dps. As dps you should always maximize dps as much as possible. If he was scholar he would actually provide actual healing and put out decent dps if he wanted.

And yeah macros on attacks when it's not needed is annoying to me.

Is that, right? I wasn't sure what class he was but I assumed he was a Summoner as someone quoted that "as a SMN he should focus on DPS more".

I'll agree that as a DPS you should really bring out your output as much as possible, but I rather play it safe at times when pressing too hard and neglecting the team that will result in a wipe despite how much DPSing. Well different strokes for different people.

[RiceisNice]

Is that, right? I wasn't sure what class he was but I assumed he was a Summoner as someone quoted that "as a SMN he should focus on DPS more".

I'll agree that as a DPS you should really bring out your output as much as possible, but I rather play it safe at times when pressing too hard and neglecting the team that will result in a wipe despite how much DPSing. Well different strokes for different people.

He's going in as an arcanist and using a topaz carbuncle (the tanking one). By default he's already doing significantly less than an average player. To not expect some form of hostility when you're doing this (and he has acknowledged that this would be the case as well in another topic) is outrageous, let alone making a vent topic/post about it to victimize yourself after getting kicked for such.

[RiceisNice]

...

From the get go, if you're playing an arcanist with topaz out, you're not pulling your weight. End of story. He was raising his party, but the matter of fact is, he can also do that as a scholar and especially a summoner without suffering a loss in dps (and especially when a scholar technically can still dps more effectively than an arcanist because of cleric stance and higher mp pools). Whose to say the party got that bad in the first place because the manyu adds didn't die fast enough and chunked everyone with x2 evil eye?

Or are you going to tell me that an arcanist (who lacks 30 intellgence and fester) using a topaz will pull anywhere near the damage capability as a summoner? That extra dps could've been clutch in getting those last few hourglasses down or killing the adds before evil eyes.


As far as macros with res/virus is concerned, it's pretty important to make those calls so you don't overlap something. You can't see your party's targets without having to directly target them, and virus is extremely important in some circumstances that it needs to be called out to ensure no confusion/wasted cooldowns.

In the end though, OP did find a compromise to avoid things like this in the future, so props to him. In the end, you need to make sure there's an understanding between both parties. Don't push the envelope when people ask you the first time around, and certainly don't victimize/act surprised when they finally do retaliate.