Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

[Tsuga]

Its great that you want to feel like a hulking juggernaut, and that you will get the chance to; but why are you trying to impose your preference upon those that rolled a female character, when they might have other reasons for choosing dark knight? There are plenty of people that like the exposed midriff design for the female dragoons. I expect plenty of people would be happy with and welcome a similar design for female dark knights.

I personally do not want DRK to have an exposed midriff. I think that feminine and sexy are often conflated, and I think that that's the problem with the DRG design for a lot of people. It seems like it's going more for sexy.

I think that a female dark knight can still look cool, and imposing in that armor, and I think that it can maintain that while still looking flattering on a female character. Sometimes I want to look cool in a set of armor while still having my character's gender identifiable. I think that's what's so great about a lot of the FFT female character designs. They're identifiable as both the job, and the gender, without equating sex with feminine.

That's not to say that I don't think sexy can be cool, too, or that sexy designs are unacceptable. I just think that the job designs should be modest, but still flattering to my gender.

[Alacran]

And how hulking do you think lalafel dark knights will look, male or female?

If people wanted to look like a a hulking juggernaut they would roll male rhoe's, as you have done. No female, with the exception of female rhoe's, looks physically imposing. An identical suit of armour will not make them look like hulking juggernauts, because it will not add height or mass. That being the case, why should they not be different, to accentuate the fact that the males and females are different? Since, as much as you seem to dislike it, they are just that; different.

Its great that you want to feel like a hulking juggernaut, and that you will get the chance to; but why are you trying to impose your preference upon those that rolled a female character, when they might have other reasons for choosing dark knight? There are plenty of people that like the exposed midriff design for the female dragoons. I expect plenty of people would be happy with and welcome a similar design for female dark knights.

Plenty of female characters need not look like striped down versions of their male counter parts, Unohana Retsu never did and she held the mantel of Kenpachi for quite a while.

Predominately many are flocking to DRK due to the look of the job. So far it has been presented as vicious fighter capable of both magical and physical attacks. The imposing look is what is making it popular, the want to look imposing should not be the sole providence of male characters. The fact 33 pages and 330 post later can attest to the interest of this topic, the OP has well over 300 likes. All this says to me that plenty of those that use female characters also want feel like fierce, imposing, vicious tanks, even if they never wanted to be juggernauts, they deserve to be taken seriously.

[SpookyGhost]

Nah, it's on the original designs:
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery...gon-knight.jpg
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery.../ff14-bard.jpg.

Ah, that's interesting. Strange that he went that direction, doesn't seem very Yoshida to only poke holes in things. I guess time restraints could've been a problem as well.

I'm fine with small changes for the female designs to be more feminine, but I think just putting holes in them is a bit lazy. The Bard outfit is sort of unisex to begin with (heavy on the long flowing cloth), so there's no real problems with the cleavage hole they added in for females in terms of the overall feel. But the Dragoon stomach hole is just... really weird.

[beowulf81]

I personally do not want DRK to have an exposed midriff. I think that feminine and sexy are often conflated, and I think that that's the problem with the DRG design for a lot of people. It seems like it's going more for sexy.

I think that a female dark knight can still look cool, and imposing in that armor, and I think that it can maintain that while still looking flattering on a female character. Sometimes I want to look cool in a set of armor while still having my character's gender identifiable. I think that's what's so great about a lot of the FFT female character designs. They're identifiable as both the job, and the gender, without equating sex with feminine.

That's not to say that I don't think sexy can be cool, too, or that sexy designs are unacceptable. I just think that the job designs should be modest, but still flattering to my gender.

I see what you're saying; and i disagree. I don't think job designs should be modest, i think they should look good. Sexy looks good. Powerful, also looks good. Why is it bad for male characters to look powerful, and for female characters to look sexy? Such diversity reflects life; look at professional fitness models and you can clearly see that male fitness models look powerful, while female fitness models look sexy. And they are supposed to represent the aesthetic pinnacle of the human form.

An exposed midriff is not a thong, and its frankly ridiculous that its being regarded as though it is. I find this kind of repressive outrage to be rather misogynistic, an attempt to deny women their right to look like women. It just isn't right.

[Kuurei]

Ah, that's interesting. Strange that he went that direction, doesn't seem very Yoshida to only poke holes in things. I guess time restraints could've been a problem as well.

I'm fine with small changes for the female designs to be more feminine, but I think just putting holes in them is a bit lazy. The Bard outfit is sort of unisex to begin with (heavy on the long flowing cloth), so there's no real problems with the cleavage hole they added in for females in terms of the overall feel. But the Dragoon stomach hole is just... really weird.

The Dragoon Bellyhole is b/c FemDRGs are like Minfillia -- they wanna git that gutpunch every now and then.

Seriously, could make a montage of all the times Minfillia gets gutpunched, slapped, or otherwise injured due to that bellyhole and play Beethoven's symphony behind it.

[Alacran]

I see what you're saying; and i disagree. I don't think job designs should be modest, i think they should look good. Sexy looks good. Powerful, also looks good. Why is it bad for male characters to look powerful, and for female characters to look sexy? Such diversity reflects life; look at professional fitness models and you can clearly see that male fitness models look powerful, while female fitness models look sexy. And they are supposed to represent the aesthetic pinnacle of the human form.

An exposed midriff is not a thong, and its frankly ridiculous that its being regarded as though it is. I find this kind of repressive outrage to be rather misogynistic, an attempt to deny women their right to look like women. It just isn't right.

Ever stop to think maybe a female player wants to feel powerful? Such things do exist in life, and should exist in game as well. She may want to be a Powerful Dark Knight instead of a Sexy Dark Knight.

[beowulf81]

Plenty of female characters need not look like striped down versions of their male counter parts, Unohana Retsu never did and she held the mantel of Kenpachi for quite a while.

Unohana, for the longest time, was presented to us as a meek healer, and her appearance gave us no reason to suspect she was anything other than that. At no point did she ever look anywhere near as imposing or as physically threatening as Zaraki. And you know what? That was perfectly fine. She may not have been the hulking powerhouse that Zaraki is, but she was a capable and powerful kenpachi in her own right. She didn't need to look like Zaraki to stand against him. Wrong example pal.

Predominately many are flocking to DRK due to the look of the job. So far it has been presented as vicious fighter capable of both magical and physical attacks. The imposing look is what is making it popular, the want to look imposing should not be the sole providence of male characters. The fact 33 pages and 330 post later can attest to the interest of this topic, the OP has well over 300 likes. All this says to me that plenty of those that use female characters also want feel like fierce, imposing, vicious tanks, even if they never wanted to be juggernauts, they deserve to be taken seriously.

The way the job has been presented to us, it looks menacing and powerful. It would not look nearly as menacing or as powerful if they had depicted a male lalafel as a dark knight instead of a male au ra. Many of the people flocking to dark knight will change to a male au ra because they look vicious and imposing. That does not mean that lalafel dark knights will look vicious or imposing, and I'm quite sure that they will not.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't take lala dark knights seriously, because its the player's skill that will decide if they are seen as imposing tanks, not their physical stature. If you turn out to be rubbish as a dark knight, the fact that you rolled a male rho will not prevent people from deciding not to take you seriously, however much of a juggernaut you may appear to be.

[beowulf81]

Ever stop to think maybe a female player wants to feel powerful? Such things do exist in life, and should exist in game as well. She may want to be a Powerful Dark Knight instead of a Sexy Dark Knight.

And what about the lalafels that want to look like human juggernauts? who will speak for them? Why can't they look like Powerful Dark Knights instead of infant children in costumes?

[Riastrad]

....Sexy looks good. Powerful, also looks good. Why is it bad for male characters to look powerful, and for female characters to look sexy?

....I find this kind of repressive outrage to be rather misogynistic, an attempt to deny women their right to look like women. It just isn't right.

...why are you trying to impose your preference upon those that rolled a female character, when they might have other reasons for choosing dark knight?

Do you see? Please tell me you do.

Time to go read something other than Conan the Barbarian.

[Alacran]

Unohana, for the longest time, was presented to us as a meek healer, and her appearance gave us no reason to suspect she was anything other than that. At no point did she ever look anywhere near as imposing or as physically threatening as Zaraki. And you know what? That was perfectly fine. She may not have been the hulking powerhouse that Zaraki is, but she was a capable and powerful kenpachi in her own right. She didn't need to look like Zaraki to stand against him. Wrong example pal.


The way the job has been presented to us, it looks menacing and powerful. It would not look nearly as menacing or as powerful if they had depicted a male lalafel as a dark knight instead of a male au ra. Many of the people flocking to dark knight will change to a male au ra because they look vicious and imposing. That does not mean that lalafel dark knights will look vicious or imposing, and I'm quite sure that they will not.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't take lala dark knights seriously, because its the player's skill that will decide if they are seen as imposing tanks, not their physical stature. If you turn out to be rubbish as a dark knight, the fact that you rolled a male rho will not prevent people from deciding not to take you seriously, however much of a juggernaut you may appear to be.

1. Sorry "pal" the point I was addressing was that she was dressed as a Captain class Soul Reaper, not a cheerleader. The character was not represented as meek but refined, respected, sometimes even feared. You simply missed the point "pal".

2. Weather or not a Lala wants to be taken seriously isn't the issue, those that chose that race often did not do so for their imposing characteristics. The topic for many here has been on the over/ unnecessary sexualization of Artifact Armour of a job, in relation to female characters, regardless of chosen race. The right to appear as a powerful Dark Knight is not an option only you deserve to have "pal".

3. The fact that I chose a male Highlander have little to do with my skill as a Dark Knight. How someone conducts themselves as their chosen job should be the basis as to weather or not they are taken seriously, on that we can agree, however the fact is by your logic only men can be powerful, while females can only ever be sexy...Are you ok "pal"? What era do you think we are in?