Please disable changing Cleric Stance during combat for make healer focus on healing.

[Hiragawa]

If your dps are losing to the dps check... maybe you should check with the dps.

But nah, that would make sense. Because what it sounds like you're saying, is that the healer dps could help -make up- for the failed dps to give it that -last push-.

Hmm... Thanks for making my case, I'm glad you understand. Helpful =/= Mandatory. If it was mandatory, you would fail every single time with any dps makeup regardless of skill level if a healer wasn't dpsing.

I'll keep stance dancing (or not). And I'll keep letting the other healers do the same. Cleric stance is fine.

[sharazisspecial]

In coil the penalty of cleric stance didnt mean much as a WHM, because not only did your spells mostly miss. You could only use cleric stance in certain times where the boss is outputting low damage. Its also your duty to precast heals etc.
So even if cleric stance was easier to use. It wouldnt be used much more on WHM.
SCH would enjoy it alot more though, because WHM is main healer and SCH don't precast spells in the same way WHM has too.

Maybe in dungeons and primals you would use cleric stance way more , because as WHM you would have plenty of time to contribute DPS since your regens and stoneskins are often enough(but not enough to last the cleric stance penalty) and your dps will always hit. For dungeons holy also stuns.
SCH in these situations are free to dps as much as they want anyway. I don't think you will even care about your penalty if your second healer is alive and not braindead.

[Cynfael]

Helpful =/= Mandatory. If it was mandatory, you would fail every single time with any dps makeup regardless of skill level if a healer wasn't dpsing.

I'll keep stance dancing (or not). And I'll keep letting the other healers do the same. Cleric stance is fine.

The issue has never been about the use of CS being mandatory; it's more that knowing how to use it effectively and doing so is a practice of skilled healers and ought to be encouraged.

I expect of healers the same that I expect of other roles: do everything you can to aid timely, efficient, successful completion of objectives. That I expect this does not make it mandatory for others, of course, but I would hope that most players would want to play as well as they could.

[Nadirah]

Did any of you guys read?

No, its not mandatory. No, its not included in the design.

Yes, it helps if you're at or below minimum expected gear, but if you are at minimum, you should be able to complete it(yes, even Savage) with your healers *only* healing and NO DPS.

I think you folks aren't completely reading that interview.

And honestly, healer DPS should *never* become mandatory, ever.

[Hiragawa]

The issue has never been about the use of CS being mandatory; it's more that knowing how to use it effectively and doing so is a practice of skilled healers and ought to be encouraged.

I expect of healers the same that I expect of other roles: do everything you can to aid timely, efficient, successful completion of objectives. That I expect this does not make it mandatory for others, of course, but I would hope that most players would want to play as well as they could.

Now now, I'm on your side of this argument. The reply you quoted was one of many towards Sharaz and others in the thread. I'm always far more pleased with a skilled healer adding in dps, but I'm not going to admonish them if they don't use it.*

*provided of course, that they are actually performing their healing role. If you aren't healing (when needed) as a healer, please leave. Thanks kindly.

[Cynfael]

Now now, I'm on your side of this argument. The reply you quoted was one of many towards Sharaz and others in the thread. I'm always far more pleased with a skilled healer adding in dps, but I'm not going to admonish them if they don't use it.*

*provided of course, that they are actually performing their healing role. If you aren't healing (when needed) as a healer, please leave. Thanks kindly.

Yeah, I only quoted because I know that people will jump on the use of the word "mandatory" and start straw-manning the "good healers know when to DPS and should do it" argument into a "healers must DPS to make up for raid deficiencies" one.

[Alisa180]

Healer DPS is not the norm, it is there to be done by those with the skill to do so. Just because some can, some cant and some wont, it doesnt mean the ability has to be removed to placate those who cant/wont. Healer DPS is "the norm" for those who have the skill to do so. OP, like many other people, is blaming the lack of certain peoples skill on an ability. If you dont raid, then healer dps should not be that much of an issue. If you do raid seriously as a healer and refuse to dps to push phases, then the issue is the lack of skill on said raid healer.

I do plan to raid seriously. And that last sentence is precisely my issue. I repeat, I suck at DPS. I don't play this game to DPS. That said, I can DPS during lulls, and am teaching myself to do so. But I can't do it with Cleric Stance. I'm very aware of my limits and realize that trying to stance dance is just asking for it.

My skill as a healer should not be judged by my ability or inability to DPS. It should be judged by how good I am at keeping everyone alive. That's the whole point of the role, after all (I plan on playing a WHM, BTW).

[amihavingfunyet]

And honestly, healer DPS should *never* become mandatory, ever.

I really hope you never had the joy of wiping sub 1% on any boss where your healers didn't do a single point of damage, not even on the long as fuck enrage cast (ie Ultima, Gigaflare).
No one expects healers to full time DPS, but not DPSing when your healing isn't required and just generates overheal is about as stupid as letting the tank die because you were busy doing your sick DPS. When you're new to content you probably won't have much time to DPS, but as you do content more often you should be able to see windows were you can DPS.
And no, I've never seen anyone complain that a healer does too little DPS or no DPS at all. It's up to the healer after all, but it's also up to the group if they wouldn't rather take a healer that can do more.

[FoxyAreku]

-snip-

You really don't get it, do you?
No one queues as a healer expecting only to dps. A good healer will heal AND dps when the opportunity is there.
Whether it's factored into the fights or not is a pointless argument, and is just an excuse to do less work. If you can keep everyone alive and still do 200 dps to help kill the boss, there is literally no argument to not do it except "I'm lazy" or "I'm not good enough".

Also saying Cleric Stance is optional because it's a cross class skill just shows how little you know. ._. Next you'll say invigorate and swiftcast are optional for melee and casters respectively.

It also greatly helps. When final coil first came out, there were very few (IF ANY) groups that were able to push 4 bennus without both healers contributing as much dps as possible in t12. Stuff like that makes a huge difference.

[Seku]

I do plan to raid seriously. And that last sentence is precisely my issue. I repeat, I suck at DPS. I don't play this game to DPS. That said, I can DPS during lulls, and am teaching myself to do so. But I can't do it with Cleric Stance. I'm very aware of my limits and realize that trying to stance dance is just asking for it.

My skill as a healer should not be judged by my ability or inability to DPS. It should be judged by how good I am at keeping everyone alive. That's the whole point of the role, after all (I plan on playing a WHM, BTW).

Take it slow and first get adjusted to it not being on GCD. As basicly the way you do it is that you turn it on right after a cure or offensive spell goes off, that way on the way back around on your normal GCD, your spells are up and at their full power ready to go again. Takes some getting use to though.