The new jobs / Ishgard city access - yes, again.

[IceSpear]

I kinda skimed through this so correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm understanding is... You want to play the expansion jobs and not have to do the main story to unlock them? But I mean... If your going to play the game you might as well do the story, it's really not that hard and all... That's like me saying I want this end-game (insert whatever floats your boat item) at level 30. :/

[Allistar]

I kinda skimed through this so correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm understanding is... You want to play the expansion jobs and not have to do the main story to unlock them? But I mean... If your going to play the game you might as well do the story, it's really not that hard and all... That's like me saying I want this end-game (insert whatever floats your boat item) at level 30. :/

Why can't I play the MSQ with the new jobs...whats my incentive to level these jobs from 30-60???...grind fates???...dungeons??? because really that's all we have...BUT!!! If we can get access to the new jobs and level them while doing the MSQ and the fates and the various dungeons, I think we'll have a lot more happier players. No???

[IceSpear]

Why can't I play the MSQ with the new jobs...whats my incentive to level these jobs from 30-60???...grind fates???...dungeons??? because really that's all we have...BUT!!! If we can get access to the new jobs and level them while doing the MSQ and the fates and the various dungeons, I think we'll have a lot more happier players. No???

Because as far as you're aware none of these jobs exist. Nobody even mentions them why's that? Because Ishgard has been closed off. To be perfectly honest it just sounds like you guys want to be handed the new jobs on a platter dish without the salad dressing.

[GenJoe]

I kinda skimed through this so correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm understanding is... You want to play the expansion jobs and not have to do the main story to unlock them? But I mean... If your going to play the game you might as well do the story, it's really not that hard and all... That's like me saying I want this end-game (insert whatever floats your boat item) at level 30. :/

No, it's more along the lines of..

Expansion is coming, I want to start a new character/job and I would like to experience the actual game as a new job.

Which is impossible to do... Basically, if you're making any character specifically to be a DRK/AST/MCH, those are secondary jobs ONLY. Because you'd already have to have a primary job in order to get beyond 2.55. Which is a lot like DK from WoW (they start at lv 55) except in WoW's case, each class is a stand alone character and DK's actually have their own dedicated quest to get them out of their starting zones. With HW jobs, none of them even have a "starting" zone or an "origin story" if you will. I'm sure there will be lore, but you won't be born into it so to speak. It's really only a problem for the people who have alts and/or like to give each character a specific identity. It's a minority of the player base for sure, but there's really not too great of a reason to alienate that part when they can just as easily move the job NPCs to Mor Dhona for example.

I myself have 2 characters I made that are ad-hoc. 1 as a BRD and another as a SMN or SCH (to be determined) I was contemplating making another one modeled after Mustadio and make him a Machinist, and I have a friend who would like to make a character just for DRK, but neither are possible without leveling a main class to complete 2.55 which is where the issue arises.

As an example, I ask you this. You've probably seen a lot of Tifa Lockharts running around in-game and most of them that are serious about their character have the proper glam, proper hair, and even the proper job (MNK). You don't expect these characters to be a builder of the realms or a lv 50 Dragoon or something.. They might have a couple other classes for the cross class skills but that is it.. That is how serious some people take their character identity. Now imagine doing the same for Machinist.. can't be done.


Now, my personal gripe with it is the crafting scene, which still hasn't been addressed which is.. As crafters, we will be able to reach lv 60 without needing to enter foot in Ishgard, and gearing can all be done via MB without issues.. However, where will the recipes be located? Mor Dhona? or Ishgard? Now that's the tricky part that's making me unsure if I need to do MSQ for my crafting alt to prepare for HW.

[m3eansean]

You've probably seen a lot of Tifa Lockharts running around in-game and most of them that are serious about their character have the proper glam, proper hair, and even the proper job (MNK). You don't expect these characters to be a builder of the realms or a lv 50 Dragoon or something.. They might have a couple other classes for the cross class skills but that is it.. That is how serious some people take their character identity. Now imagine doing the same for Machinist.. can't be done..... which still hasn't been addressed which is.. As crafters, we will be able to reach lv 60 without needing to enter foot in Ishgard, and gearing can all be done via MB without issues.. However, where will the recipes be located? Mor Dhona? or Ishgard? Now that's the tricky part that's making me unsure if I need to do MSQ for my crafting alt to prepare for HW.

The RP community is a small, tiny almost insignificant fraction of the playerbase and they certainly aren't keeping the lights on with your sub money. The game actively discourages alts, so I can't wrap my brain around why people still try and do this to themselves.

Lastly, it is without a doubt, your "crafting alts" need to clear 2.55 MSQ to access the new crafts. I would almost guarantee the new recipes will be accessed in Ishgard.

One of the selling points of this game is there is no need for alts, it even SAYS IT ON THE BACK OF THE BOX the game is sold in.

[GenJoe]

One of the selling points of this game is there is no need for alts, it even SAYS IT ON THE BACK OF THE BOX the game is sold in.

Meh, I'll believe it when I see it

Because SE is already deviating from that model for crafters, first it was the desynth and now it's the specialist system..

I believe it was mentioned that there will be specialist recipes, we just don't know what they are yet, if they'll be marketable or if they'll just be fluff to get you through the levels. So quite a few crafters have resorted to making alts just to prepare for the unknown..

No need for alts? That flew out the window when desynth came about and if you were serious about crafting and didn't want to pay 300% markup to buy demimateria.

I'm not necessarily bashing the way desynth was done, I think it was designed in a reasonable manner, but it certainly makes alts appealing to somebody who's interested in heavy crafting.. Specialist system will only draw even more people to making alts.


P.S. I don't RP, don't group me with those folks what I gave was just an example. How ARR jobs can meet those needs, but HW jobs can't. So we have 3 tiers job/classes essentially.. We have the original, then we have Rogue (not a huge deal, just need a lv 10), then we have the HW jobs (kind of a big deal I'd say.. MSQ can take quite a while) It really doesn't help to grab any new players if you ask me. The big appeal with an expansion is usually new races and classes.. Fortunately, new players can start as Au Ra (iirc, confirm?) but they can't start as any of the new jobs that does turn off quite a few people.. It's really in all of our best interest that a constant flow of new players join us to keep the game going and growing.. I don't think this expansion will help the cause.. It will bring some old players back I suppose but that'll be temporary.

[BroodingFicus]

I have seen a lot of discussion about alts etc due to the way the HW jobs are being handled and my take is that square has sent a mixed message about that for a long time. I don't craft so I can't speak for that but as someone who has several characters at least to lvl 50 (even if MSQ is not done) I can say that there are valid reasons given by FFXIV to have alts.

A. Tome cap. If you have a WHM and a NIN on the same character you max tomes for the week but you pretty much have to grind one at a time seeing as you don't get higher caps for having multiple classes. Someone with two separate characters can cap one and then cap the other and so they will actually gear faster.

B. Gear lockout. Though WoD etc all eventually lose the 'one item a week' rule you still have to chose which class you are going to roll for gear on. Someone with both classes, again, can do one and then go move to the other character.

C. If you level all classes on one character you start getting tight for inventory space. I know people who specifically made alts just because they got tired of trying to juggle mats and gear sets on one person.

D. They released a new race: Au Ra. None of us had the chance to make them when we first created characters so even someone who is fixed on having all their eggs in one basket so to speak is now faced with a dilemma. Do you fantasia a character you may have had since launch to become an Au Ra? Making a new race inherently encourages alts.

Also a lot of us do pay for 8 slots. So...yeah. Most MMO's have gear lockouts as well as caps to meet each week. I'm not saying FFXIV is wrong for keeping those staples. However no other MMO I have seen has been this unfriendly to alts /and/ used these devices. They get noticed more because the reasons to make an alt are the same as they have always been and yet its been made painfully difficult by an MSQ that (personally) has really amazing tidbits surrounded by lots of running back and forth because someone actually took the time to call you and tell you to come back to talk instead of talking or someone else needs you to stop saving the world to pass out tea.

I know they are making the MSQ give more exp and story trials/dungeons will be given priority but even if completing the MSQ will now get you to 50 it could still take several days of playing non stop just to reach the the original ending let alone all the patch content. That's if you don't, you know, work or have other things you need to be doing. In which case you are looking at much much longer. So at launch people who want Au Ra of the new jobs but don't want to fantasia existing characters are going to be forced to spend time leveling from scratch as a class they never wanted to even get a shot at it. When they could be actually enjoying the content they paid for. *deep breath*

In short it benefits no one. New players who were pulled in by the classes advertised in HW won't be happy. Players who returned due to those classes won't be happy and going by forums and other discussion, many existing players are not happy.

[GenJoe]

no other MMO I have seen has been this unfriendly to alts /and/ used these devices

What's funny is that you have much more interaction and intimacy with a random stranger you meet in-game than your own alts on the same account.
Unless they're on the same FC, there's absolutely no way for one to even see the other's name.. So close, yet so far away is what my alts feel like. Of course, I've found a work around using the fc chest and doing what limited interaction I can get between the two but still, having a crafter and being unable to meld my own gear for alts does get annoying at times.

In short it benefits no one. New players who were pulled in by the classes advertised in HW won't be happy. Players who returned due to those classes won't be happy and going by forums and other discussion, many existing players are not happy.

Exactly, the only opposition to the idea comes from people who say "But FF14 is a lore-centric MMO and it's the way the lore is.." while a valid point, most of these people don't really feel that strongly one way or the other.. Like I said before, none of these lore enthusiasts would quit the game over such an issue if SE decided to unlock Ishgard before 2.55 MSQ.. because SE dictates what the lore is they can always make it work. Plenty of people have quit or will not be buying the expansion over not getting access however.



Can you imagine if you're a returning player? You heard about Ishgard this Ishgard that so you come back wanting to see for yourself.. then BOOM! got MSQ to catch up on.. I can't help but feel many of these returners won't even get to see Ishgard before quitting.