Hybrid classes - SAM & RD MAGE.

[Renik]

Well you'd have to pick one to major in since this game doesn't really support a true hybrid class (really pia to balance anyways lol), but it seems like the Paladin will be a tanking support in Heavensward (even more so than it is already) - with it's new barrier to ally and heal spell.

Possible ~ :P

Wrong, Yoshi said the game was designed to include Hybrid classes in the future, if they decided to delay the release was to keep the DF ptys simple for the new player to the genre, this was said in an old interview back to when 2.1 was released, and the decision to delay them was announced in a live letter.

I think it's about time to add hybrid classes, i don't feel comfortable at all playing a plain role, i used to play RDM and BLU in ffxi because they were hybrids, and played hybrid classes in most MMOs, just because that's my role, the same way some people like to tank or heal, this game is supposed to appeal to the masses and part of the masses wants to play hybrids.

Oh and my RDM was an awesome DPS, even tank in XI, don't blame the game for turning it into a refresh machine, blame the players for using a guide for everything instead of exploring the job themselves

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[Ashkendor]

Wrong, Yoshi said the game was designed to include Hybrid classes in the future, if they decided to delay the release was to keep the DF ptys simple for the new player to the genre, this was said in an old interview back to when 2.1 was released, and the decision to delay them was announced in a live letter.

Eh. I found the interview you're talking about. While they do mention the hybrid role in it, that interview is also really old and outdated. I'm kinda leaning toward taking it with a grain of salt since plans for things like that can change really fast if they decide that it's not going to work out. We already know that hybrid roles aren't due out for the Heavensward expansion since they've already announced the new classes available for that, and they all fit quite squarely into the Holy Trinity. Either it's fallen by the wayside or it's something that's been pushed to the next expansion, neither of which is difficult to believe. It was mentioned in the recent Time Magazine interview, but all he really cited was the difficulty of making it balanced and mentions the possiblity of a "skill tree". He does mention Red Mage is one of his favorite jobs, but that could mean we're getting it as a hybrid role or that it's just being adapted as a pure DPS. Hell, it could just mean he likes dropping bread crumbs to see what conspiracy theories we come up with.

I think it's about time to add hybrid classes, i don't feel comfortable at all playing a plain role, i used to play RDM and BLU in ffxi because they were hybrids, and played hybrid classes in most MMOs, just because that's my role, the same way some people like to tank or heal, this game is supposed to appeal to the masses and part of the masses wants to play hybrids.

"Part of the masses" =/= "The masses". If they think it's only going to appeal to a small portion of the playerbase, they're probably not going to do it. If you need confirmation, just look at the design choices they made with Au Ra. :3

Summoner is a hybrid job and they are in the game so I'm sure they can add other hybrid jobs as well

How is it a hybrid job? Having Raise, E4E, Virus, and a really crappy Physick doesn't make you hybrid. o.O

[Renik]

snip

I said the interview was old, but it doesn't change the fact that the game has been designed to support hybrid roles, and the battle and instance systems have not changed, so it's still able to support them.

And, i'm sure there's more people interested in hybrid or pure support roles than savage coil, or even normal coil, and both are in the game, this leads to 2 options, they really want to appeal to everyone, but they have to do it step by step in small doses, or they are being hypocrite and just implement what they want to. I want to believe it's the first one.

[Ashkendor]

I said the interview was old, but it doesn't change the fact that the game has been designed to support hybrid roles, and the battle and instance systems have not changed, so it's still able to support them.

And, i'm sure there's more people interested in hybrid or pure support roles than savage coil, or even normal coil, and both are in the game, this leads to 2 options, they really want to appeal to everyone, but they have to do it step by step in small doses, or they are being hypocrite and just implement what they want to. I want to believe it's the first one.

The game wasn't so much "designed to support hybrid classes" though. The Holy Trinity works. I don't think anyone can really refute that. So many games use it because it works. The possibility of hybrid classes in the future is simply the reason they chose the arbitrary number of 8 people in a Full Party. It obviously works just as well with four DPS instead, so if at any point they've decided that hybrid or support classes simply aren't going to work out within FFXIV's setup, I have no doubt that they'll simply scrap the idea and make RDM, BLU, or whatever other classes they decide to add fit into one of the existing roles. Like I said, we obviously aren't getting it for Heavensward so if it's still happening, probably the soonest we can expect it would be the new expansion. So another year, possibly two?

My previous game has a lot of hybrid classes. You name it, there's a hybrid for it. The problem you run into is that unless the classes are exceptionally well designed, you end up with horrible game balance issues. If they're underpowered, they end up being underplayed. People don't want them in their parties, so they get kicked in favor of stronger classes. Nobody wants to be kicked from a party simply due to their class choice. If they're overpowered, then that's all you see people playing everywhere you turn. Parties with max numbers of that class become the norm and all others end up being kicked in favor of stacking up that one class. You end up either overhauling classes one by one (which has problems of its own) or overhauling your entire class system in a quest for game balance. It all turns the game into a huge mess, which can end up turning players away when new content is introduced that suddenly makes their chosen class obsolete.

SE already has a well-balanced game here and I can't blame them for being so careful.

[Akiza]

Eh. I found the interview you're talking about. While they do mention the hybrid role in it, that interview is also really old and outdated. I'm kinda leaning toward taking it with a grain of salt since plans for things like that can change really fast if they decide that it's not going to work out. We already know that hybrid roles aren't due out for the Heavensward expansion since they've already announced the new classes available for that, and they all fit quite squarely into the Holy Trinity. Either it's fallen by the wayside or it's something that's been pushed to the next expansion, neither of which is difficult to believe. It was mentioned in the recent Time Magazine interview, but all he really cited was the difficulty of making it balanced and mentions the possiblity of a "skill tree". He does mention Red Mage is one of his favorite jobs, but that could mean we're getting it as a hybrid role or that it's just being adapted as a pure DPS. Hell, it could just mean he likes dropping bread crumbs to see what conspiracy theories we come up with.



"Part of the masses" =/= "The masses". If they think it's only going to appeal to a small portion of the playerbase, they're probably not going to do it. If you need confirmation, just look at the design choices they made with Au Ra. :3



How is it a hybrid job? Having Raise, E4E, Virus, and a really crappy Physick doesn't make you hybrid. o.O

Summoner is a combination of Black Magic and Summoning Magic with a little bit of White Magic. Red Mage is a combination of Black Magic and White Magic with En Spells.

[MetalheroD]

Summoner is a combination of Black Magic and Summoning Magic with a little bit of White Magic. Red Mage is a combination of Black Magic and White Magic with En Spells.

Except that it's usually a combination of white and black magic, as well as melee damagce dealing. En spells are an example of giving them white/black magic, because they allow their melee attacks to deal magic damage.

[OmegaNovaios]

Summoner is a combination of Black Magic and Summoning Magic with a little bit of White Magic. Red Mage is a combination of Black Magic and White Magic with En Spells.

RDM is a combination of White Magic, Black Magic, and Physical Capabilities (both offensive and defensive). I would describe RDM as 1/3 WHM, 1/3 BLM, and 1/3 WAR.

However in FFXI, RDM also combines White Magic and Black Magic to create spells that neither can cast alone such as Gravity, Refresh, Phalanx, etc. with the addition of being able to cast all spells more quickly. It has things that make it unique in addition to borrowing skills from other jobs.

Last but not least RDM has also learned to channel his magic through weapons effectively and should be able to absorb more blows w/o interruption making the already unique combination of White/Black magic even more distinct with combat casting.

So ultimately I would say RDM is 1/4 WHM, 1/4 BLM, 1/4 WAR, and 1/4 Awesome.

[Ashkendor]

Summoner is a combination of Black Magic and Summoning Magic with a little bit of White Magic. Red Mage is a combination of Black Magic and White Magic with En Spells.

Eh. When someone talks about a "hybrid job" that to me is a job that blurs the Holy Trinity's role lines. It ultimately doesn't matter that Summoner has access to both Black magic and Summoning magic since those both amount to the same thing in this game - a pure DPS class. When I talk about hybrid classes, I'm meaning something closer to a tank/dps or support/dps. The closest thing we really have to hybrid jobs right now are Scholar and Bard.