Hybrid classes - SAM & RD MAGE.

[AzraelX]

so Yoshi has mentioned hybrid classes , Samurai, @ Red Mage in previous interviews.

I was thinking wouldn't it be cool for Samurai & Red Mage to be the 1st hybrid classes in the game they would work sort of like AST with same moves doing different effects on what stance they are in and stance can only be changed out of combat.

Samurai- dps & tank
Red Mage - dps & healer

What do you guys think?

[Shougun]

Personally seeing SAM being placed as DRG's neighbor, they both can wear the heaviest DD armor (which has the highest pDef, and visually most tanky DD look). In terms of balance they couldn't make Samurai good at both, so one option would have to be meh (I know there are people who want it to main tank, same rule for balance applies though). Like any of the tank options (all the tanks have a stance option), or SCH and SMN, where they can do both but they only really excel at one.

For Red Mage I kind of hope they can give him a moment to shine with damage, due to FFXI he's been hanging out as support for quite some time already. That sword.. it's not just a wand.. lol. I'm definitely not opposed to support features, I mean a lot of our DD have support skills here and there already (and red mage can wield "white magic"), just hope they don't FFXI em' into a mage bard- I would like to see him also be a melee DD battle mage. Disclaimer: stopped playing FFXI around WOTG, so the class could be different than I remember (also never played Red Mage, but it seemed to be a refresh pez machine). I suppose it could be a healer but I think it is important to embody the sword of black and white in its whole, but due to balance he'll have to be good at one thing at least (can't be a jack of all trades).

[Onikimaru]

Personally seeing SAM being placed as DRG's neighbor, they both can wear the heaviest DD armor (which has the highest pDef, and visually most tanky DD look). In terms of balance they couldn't make Samurai good at both, so one option would have to be meh (I know there are people who want it to main tank, same rule for balance applies though). Like any of the tank options (all the tanks have a stance option), or SCH and SMN, where they can do both but they only really excel at one.

SAM's armor should look like this IMO

Obviously the males would have Armlets, single shoulder armor etc..

[Shougun]

SAM's armor should look like this IMO

Obviously the males would have Armlets, single shoulder armor etc..

Nice part about being a buddy with Dragoon is that Dragoon has some lighter gear too, so you could have great variation without much "but that doesnt fit the job group". A huge part of Samurai for most people is the sword, but I'm sure if you skip on the armor quite a number of people will flip a table :P. The tank armor looks sort of SAM, as pointed out already, but imo DRG has armor that looks just as heavy as that and so just adding an AF set or the like wouldn't be an issue - or adding a lighter gear option a bit like above (maybe more armor than just bandages, :P lol).

Hopefully we can keep OP's thread mostly on hybrid-ness . There has been a bit of talk about letting them be both light armor Ronin (Musashi Miyamoto kind of apparel) and also tanky-esque with their 40-50lb armor. Perhaps mechanically you can support that with subtle stances, say one that could significantly reduce non-targeted, non-ground marked damage (thinking cleave) and to generate a special ceiling restricted shield mechanic through damage. Basically as you do damage, the capacity of the shield increases, as damage is taken around or on you the shield is used (Paladin's new spell but self sufficient/encouragement to be closer to the tank). I say ceiling as in it will cap out at a certain amount of damage prevented, even if there is remaining capacity. This could mean the SAM could effectively off tank minor trash, or be up next to the tank supporting the tank (it could also be done the other way and be a shield generated on attacks rather than an aoe battery, but I imagine this would encourage a lot of running around rather than "standing your ground with allies"). Another stance/feature could be of a different support, like healing because FFT and it would make people O_O lol.

I like seeing these "side" features built into a main focus, I just think true hybrids (jack of all trades, master of none) will either be undesirable, forced upon us to use, gimmick mechanic that makes them desirable, or OP. Say WoW's druid for example, the Druid actually specializes their main focus, certainly they can drop their main focus form for a mediocre (better than terrible) side feature - but they do actually have a main feature still.

[Onikimaru]

Aha i didn't mean only bandages for the males, like the armlets etc would provide more diversity and cover up most of the bandage, i just think it is a great touch to the job and almost suits it perfectly. This mostly comes from seeing a lot of Ronin-esc themed samurais constantly at war or injured. As for SAM being a hybrid and having a DPS and tank stance and heavy armor, if SAM were to be a tank, but since we have DRK don't see SAM filling the tank role anymore. Instead i think the most hybrid SAM we would see in conjunction with a tank would be a similar ability to what monk has "fists of earth".
I mean don't get me wrong, i'm all for hybrids and diversity among our class options but i don't think it's going to happen for awhile. Especially with samurai since i am almost positive we will see that class before 4.0. I don't have many ideas on hybrids myself since i don't think it fits well with the current setup of the game. But this is of course only my opinion

[Wobi]

For those of you out there that played FFT a Samurai was like a tank/DPS/mage all rolled into one. It would be interesting to see them bring that concept over to MMO form and somehow balance it. (minus breaking potentially breaking our weapons)

[Shougun]

For those of you out there that played FFT a Samurai was like a tank/DPS/mage all rolled into one. It would be interesting to see them bring that concept over to MMO form and somehow balance it. (minus breaking potentially breaking our weapons)

Well you'd have to pick one to major in since this game doesn't really support a true hybrid class (really pia to balance anyways lol), but it seems like the Paladin will be a tanking support in Heavensward (even more so than it is already) - with it's new barrier to ally and heal spell.

Possible ~ :P

[Renik]

Well you'd have to pick one to major in since this game doesn't really support a true hybrid class (really pia to balance anyways lol), but it seems like the Paladin will be a tanking support in Heavensward (even more so than it is already) - with it's new barrier to ally and heal spell.

Possible ~ :P

Wrong, Yoshi said the game was designed to include Hybrid classes in the future, if they decided to delay the release was to keep the DF ptys simple for the new player to the genre, this was said in an old interview back to when 2.1 was released, and the decision to delay them was announced in a live letter.

I think it's about time to add hybrid classes, i don't feel comfortable at all playing a plain role, i used to play RDM and BLU in ffxi because they were hybrids, and played hybrid classes in most MMOs, just because that's my role, the same way some people like to tank or heal, this game is supposed to appeal to the masses and part of the masses wants to play hybrids.

Oh and my RDM was an awesome DPS, even tank in XI, don't blame the game for turning it into a refresh machine, blame the players for using a guide for everything instead of exploring the job themselves

.

[Ashkendor]

Wrong, Yoshi said the game was designed to include Hybrid classes in the future, if they decided to delay the release was to keep the DF ptys simple for the new player to the genre, this was said in an old interview back to when 2.1 was released, and the decision to delay them was announced in a live letter.

Eh. I found the interview you're talking about. While they do mention the hybrid role in it, that interview is also really old and outdated. I'm kinda leaning toward taking it with a grain of salt since plans for things like that can change really fast if they decide that it's not going to work out. We already know that hybrid roles aren't due out for the Heavensward expansion since they've already announced the new classes available for that, and they all fit quite squarely into the Holy Trinity. Either it's fallen by the wayside or it's something that's been pushed to the next expansion, neither of which is difficult to believe. It was mentioned in the recent Time Magazine interview, but all he really cited was the difficulty of making it balanced and mentions the possiblity of a "skill tree". He does mention Red Mage is one of his favorite jobs, but that could mean we're getting it as a hybrid role or that it's just being adapted as a pure DPS. Hell, it could just mean he likes dropping bread crumbs to see what conspiracy theories we come up with.

I think it's about time to add hybrid classes, i don't feel comfortable at all playing a plain role, i used to play RDM and BLU in ffxi because they were hybrids, and played hybrid classes in most MMOs, just because that's my role, the same way some people like to tank or heal, this game is supposed to appeal to the masses and part of the masses wants to play hybrids.

"Part of the masses" =/= "The masses". If they think it's only going to appeal to a small portion of the playerbase, they're probably not going to do it. If you need confirmation, just look at the design choices they made with Au Ra. :3

Summoner is a hybrid job and they are in the game so I'm sure they can add other hybrid jobs as well

How is it a hybrid job? Having Raise, E4E, Virus, and a really crappy Physick doesn't make you hybrid. o.O

[Renik]

snip

I said the interview was old, but it doesn't change the fact that the game has been designed to support hybrid roles, and the battle and instance systems have not changed, so it's still able to support them.

And, i'm sure there's more people interested in hybrid or pure support roles than savage coil, or even normal coil, and both are in the game, this leads to 2 options, they really want to appeal to everyone, but they have to do it step by step in small doses, or they are being hypocrite and just implement what they want to. I want to believe it's the first one.