o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Ferth]

Now, can you possibly clear up this crap of not being able to level if the creation of parts is removed? i get most of it but at lower levels, there's SO much you can level with. I "assume" as I have no idea that this is NOT the case the higher you progress?

Right now each base material, Ore, logs, fiber whatever is turned into another material. That material is turned into another material, which is turned into another material which can be combined with other materials to make items.

Basically from the base material stage to a final product one item could see three or four synths, and each stage of synth increases the overall amount of materials you have.

2 cotton bolls makes 12 cotton yarn, which can then be use to make cotton cloth, or in conjunction with cotton cloth to make another part.

So those 2 cotton bolls expand to far more than just the synth it takes to make yarn.

And it is those intermediary synths that provide grindable recipes that people use to earn skill.

The proposed change is going to cut the amount of synthable steps in making an item down, which is what most people are in favor of. Because what it sounds like is "When I need to make an item, all I need is this, this, and this."

But what they aren't seeing is that in order to reach the rank required to make that item, instead of being able to make "this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those." Now they can only make "this into this"... so they need to make "this into this" many more times than they would have needed to make "this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those."

Or to put it more clearly, in the current system to reach rank X lets say you need to make "this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those." 5 times.

Or
"this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those."
"this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those."
"this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those."
"this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those."
"this, into this, into this, into this, that, these or those."

Under the new system you will have to reach rank X you will need to make "this into this" 15 times.
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"

"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"

"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"
"this into this"

What this means is that you will need 3 times the base ingredient to reach the same rank.

[Wynn]

Good Post

This is exactly right and the crux of the entire problem, at least for me.

[Ainilome]

I can't help but scratch my head at why Square Enix's response to "We want crafting fixes" was to axe nearly the entire system to shreds except for the ONE aspect that actually needed fixing... the bloody mini-game.

I can't like this enough. What keeps me from crafting is any of the things they're removing, those are the things I love about crafting. It's the tedious, boring, overly long mini-game that needs to be worked on.

[Geesus]

1. Make it so that (like Physic said) you don't have to be rank 40 in every class just to make the parts required for a rank 20 synth.

This was my biggest complaint from the day of launch. To me, besides the tedium of getting all your crap in the mats box, was just somehow either a good idea gone bad or just plain dumb. Idk, I didn't design the game but I agree and have said as much since Esk started this thread.
One thing new I also like was the ability to just hit continue to make the same item again rather then going through the hoops to put each mat in the box.

6. Ability to have universal dyes? {Yes, please.} That is the only good thing I saw out of that entire update note but I was already so distraught by the rest of it to even get a hint of excitement out of it.

This was the one thing I actually don't care for. LOL Seems I'm the only one. Oh well, it is what it is and if this is my biggest pet peeve from the anouncement, I'll live. I just think the old way to dye your gear was actually kind of cool. Again a bit of busy work that could have just been simplified but I guess we shall see exactly how the Devs implement it.

[Geesus]

You can still lvl up if the parts are removed they'll prob even adjust synths to match this least i hope they do else it'll be like only having lvl 1,10,20... monsters to skill up on on battle classes, i have no issue with the skill ups if they take the parts away btw, i did FFXI and that took me years to get 100 cos of the options avalible, it's just part of crafting.

Makes sense.

i think mine and some other peoples gripe is; thay say it's gonna be easier to synth which isn't gonna be true, it's gonna be the same it just need less synths/mats (with the exception of sub crafts). my other issue is the parts are not the reason synth'n is so hard it's the lack of a good buying/selling structure in the game the market wards just don't cut it and for this reason ppl can't get what they need to make armor/weapons easily. reducing the amount of mats needed is only gonna mean less mats you still can't find in the wards.

So if I flooded, not in a bad way, the markets for mats needed by crafters, you guys would make me rich and I would get the gear needed at a reasonable price? Is that it?! So is the reason you don't have the mats because....you don't want to farm them, they're in areas you can't gather due to mobs/aggro? Why don't you guys have the mats...explain please?

And thanks to you Okiura for helping me understand better.

[Payadopa]

I can't help but scratch my head at why Square Enix's response to "We want crafting fixes" was to axe nearly the entire system to shreds except for the ONE aspect that actually needed fixing... the bloody mini-game.

7. And this one deserves to be bolded. None of these changes will make any bit of difference if the dev team does not address the root of the crafting problem: the horrible unintuitive tedious crafting mini-game. Changing the simplicity of the materials placed into the synthesis box will not change the fact I want to gouge my eyes out with my controller after five minutes of crafting.

I agree with what you said 100%. Not just the quoted parts.

[Aeyis]

THANK THE F**KING GODS!!!! Physic I love you. not really but just the fact you were concise and answered that portion of a crafter's concerns makes that portion EXTREMELY easy to understand and by f**king GOD I can agree. Ok so that sucks.

Now, can you possibly clear up this crap of not being able to level if the creation of parts is removed? i get most of it but at lower levels, there's SO much you can level with. I "assume" as I have no idea that this is NOT the case the higher you progress?

Er, if you were reading the thread thoroughly earlier how come you didnt notice Physic's earlier post, which also explained why the changes were bad for crafting? xd
People have made rather good points earlier on in the thread multiple times, but people just tend to ignore them or something~

Edit: also Geesus, i also prefer dyes kept the way they are. xd
It should be a crafters boon to be able to dye in colors not generally found on the market.
Making dyes general will remove that little bit of uniqueness you get from making (or having made by a friend) your own equipment.

Also since you still dont seem to get it, crafting takes a looot of materials.
Suddenly requiring 10x or possibly more of the same base material has nothing to do with being to lazy to grind.

But then, what am i doing talking to someone that probably never played a game where you had to grind for items with a 0.01% drop, shrug.

(hey people generalise in this thread all the time, i might as well do it too )

[Ferth]

At this point, since a few people are of the stance that rather than just saying it's a bad idea we should make suggestions I would say it's not the existence of parts that needs to be removed but rather a condensing of similar parts into a broader use item.

For example, carpenters can make about 10 different kinds of handle per type of wood. Each handle requires exactly the same recipe to make, but each handle is used for only one specific item.

Instead of having 10 redundant handles they should lower it to one or two. Short handles and long handles, or hell even just a handle.

Right now if a carpenter wants to make handles for skill AND sell that handle to try and make some money he needs to factor the demand for specific handles, Which is pretty damn hard to do, or he can just pick one type of handle at random and hope that he can sell them. Or he can try to evenly make all types of handles.

That is a bit insane considering every handle basically equates to a polished length of wood.

Combining the 10 redundant handles into one handle effectively removes 9 useless items from the game and increases the marketabilty of "Handles" across the board. But it doesn't remove the crafting step of turning lumber into handles.

The same could be done with garments, universal fronts and backs to replace shirt fronts and shirt backs and doublet fronts and robe fronts.

[Okiura]

Makes sense.



So if I flooded, not in a bad way, the markets for mats needed by crafters, you guys would make me rich and I would get the gear needed at a reasonable price? Is that it?! So is the reason you don't have the mats because....you don't want to farm them, they're in areas you can't gather due to mobs/aggro? Why don't you guys have the mats...explain please?

And thanks to you Okiura for helping me understand better.

can't speak for others but i have all the mats ready for lots of gear, bar 1-2 items that i can't find anywhere in the wards, i don't beleive in selling somting that cost 3k to make for 80k so i always sell my stuff at repectible prices (prices new players can actually afford), and still make a tidy profit, if the Wards we flooded with mats i'd flood it with gear. ^^

the way synthisis shoud be is; skill up items = loss, then gear = profit to cover losses.

[Pooky]

Finally I can craft something for myself or my friend, without looking up the recipe, seeing the amount of things involved, groan and log off, discouraged to ever craft again.