o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Chain]

ocuh, burn /cry.

forgot my tendancy to miss whole words too.

I noticed that, I'm just in a friendly mood today so I decided not to point it out.

[Wynn]

So what I'm reading from the "Pro" side of NOT making changes is, it's nothing more then the tedium of sitting somewhere in Eorzea and hitting enter to make the item? That's it? Nothing else is wrong as far as you all are concerned? Then figure it out between you all as to HOW THE F**K the developers are going to revamp and entire freaking programmed set of algorithms for not just the over ALL aspect of crafting but to change as the particular crafted piece changes, the rank of said crafter, the type of mats used ie NQ +1+2+3, the choices made by the crafter to choose standard synth, rapid, or careful (or w/e the hell they call it now)... you do realize that is virtually impossible to do right? Do you even know or can you even FATHOM the complexity in that upon which you request? LOLOLMA I HOPE someone on here IS at least in some aspects a game developer. And no I don't mean I want SE's Devs to pop in. I mean someone currently playing that can verify this info for you. LOLOLOL ridiculous bunch of GD .... lololol

Read the thread again.

[Physic]

Ok Kiote how does bringing back the guild and everything else your disgruntled about being removed make the game (crafting) better? You keep saying we don't know what the hell we are talking about but since I started posting at 1030, you have yet to announce one thing that WOULD fix crafting. Wait, you did, the UI needed to be fixed and when I asked you what you would do you said you didn't have an answer.

i dont think the guild particularly makes crafting better, but some parts of the game arent about the thing itself, but rather how it fits into the world. Some factors fade with time, or are not as valuable now due to low server population.
Having guilds give bonuses::
makes it more likely you can find a crafter in a specific area, and town
creates a gathering place for crafters and puts newbie crafters around higher level ones.
Also provides you starting off with a place that is more central to crafting.

But these issues more effect the world, uniqueness of towns and creating places where you are likely to see or be seen by crafters, not the process so much itself, but yeah it matters.

As far as the treatises, that was a huge part of the progression, and customization of a craft, certain people were better at certain things, while eventually you can get everything, you usually start off playing to your crafting style, if you only made a lot of finished products, you may choose a different sort of training, if you were using it for a sub, you might pick different books, also it gave you a bit of an advantage for cross classing.
It made it so that when you recieved guild marks you would be excited about it, and think how it could expand you crafting choices, and possibly the amount of ways you could get SP, as well as profit.

for example, a person who gathers a lot of their materials as a gathering class, might go for spinning training first on weaver, thier goal is to lower their inventory space, and take low value cotton bolls, and turn them into higher stacking, and more valuable cloth. Now if i was a leatherworker who was leveling cloth as a sub skill, i would probably go for tailor training, or something else more involved in my finished products, i would probably have been buying most my cloth, and not want to bother making it if i could avoid it.

So yeah these things take a lot of the depth and entertainment out of the classes, guild marks wont be as exciting, you will have less customization and strategic choices to make. It just doesnt improve crafting as a game. I get the feeling the overall goal is to minimize crafting as a main path, which has advantages and disadvantages, but if you really want to do that, you should probably gut it competely, i can only imagine crafting for 50 levels to be even more tedious if you dont get any skills and milestones along the way, and make some choices as to what you want to focus on

[Esk]

Here you go Esk http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2%B9%E3%83%AC? I used a translator to see if I could gauge a positive or negative but, other then a few out right I like it type responses, they seem to be delving more into the details then we are so...not sure how that plays out haha

Ah i'll give it a look ty..

An yeah unfortunately all the detail/economic discussion kind of just got washed over here for the most part which is a shame..
Lets hope they get the details and economic side covered, with all the items being taken out (and again with the lost opportunity to add more gear and recycle components.) I have got a few concerns.

[Okiura]

will repost my suggestions here to save ppl time ^^

1. adjust the lvl of some mats to line up with the synth no more lvl 40 WVR items in a lvl 20 WVR synth.

2. some items need to make multi items not just one 6 river sands (think it's 6) for 1 fine sand not good.

3. be able to sell more items at once, get the market moving abit.

4. make searching item easier, i.e. have i ward for armor parts of any type.

5. a "Wanted" item search counter.

think that'll be a good start b4 changing the actual recipes

[Geesus]

Read the thread again.

I did and that seems to be the biggest freaking gripe. I didn't start on this thread at 6AM like you did Wynn but I read every page before I opened my pie hole. And when something is mentioned that others THINK is the issue we're told no that's not the issue. Some say it's the UI others it's because they took away what would help you all level. I disagree with the leveling thing but seriously, what can you do? Otherwise my rant up there stands as is until someone just stops fussing and says ok this is it and can show that there is NO OTHER WAY to accomplish what you crafters do day in and day out in this game. It's that simple.

[Geesus]

i dont think the guild particularly makes crafting better, but some parts of the game arent about the thing itself, but rather how it fits into the world. Some factors fade with time, or are not as valuable now due to low server population.
Having guilds give bonuses::
makes it more likely you can find a crafter in a specific area, and town
creates a gathering place for crafters and puts newbie crafters around higher level ones.
Also provides you starting off with a place that is more central to crafting.

But these issues more effect the world, uniqueness of towns and creating places where you are likely to see or be seen by crafters, not the process so much itself, but yeah it matters.

As far as the treatises, that was a huge part of the progression, and customization of a craft, certain people were better at certain things, while eventually you can get everything, you usually start off playing to your crafting style, if you only made a lot of finished products, you may choose a different sort of training, if you were using it for a sub, you might pick different books, also it gave you a bit of an advantage for cross classing.
It made it so that when you recieved guild marks you would be excited about it, and think how it could expand you crafting choices, and possibly the amount of ways you could get SP, as well as profit.

for example, a person who gathers a lot of their materials as a gathering class, might go for spinning training first on weaver, thier goal is to lower their inventory space, and take low value cotton bolls, and turn them into higher stacking, and more valuable cloth. Now if i was a leatherworker who was leveling cloth as a sub skill, i would probably go for tailor training, or something else more involved in my finished products, i would probably have been buying most my cloth, and not want to bother making it if i could avoid it.

So yeah these things take a lot of the depth and entertainment out of the classes, guild marks wont be as exciting, you will have less customization and strategic choices to make. It just doesnt improve crafting as a game. I get the feeling the overall goal is to minimize crafting as a main path, which has advantages and disadvantages, but if you really want to do that, you should probably gut it competely, i can only imagine crafting for 50 levels to be even more tedious if you dont get any skills and milestones along the way, and make some choices as to what you want to focus on

THANK THE F**KING GODS!!!! Physic I love you. not really but just the fact you were concise and answered that portion of a crafter's concerns makes that portion EXTREMELY easy to understand and by f**king GOD I can agree. Ok so that sucks.

Now, can you possibly clear up this crap of not being able to level if the creation of parts is removed? i get most of it but at lower levels, there's SO much you can level with. I "assume" as I have no idea that this is NOT the case the higher you progress?

[Okiura]

Now, can you possibly clear up this crap of not being able to level if the creation of parts is removed? i get most of it but at lower levels, there's SO much you can level with. I "assume" as I have no idea that this is NOT the case the higher you progress?

You can still lvl up if the parts are removed they'll prob even adjust synths to match this least i hope they do else it'll be like only having lvl 1,10,20... monsters to skill up on on battle classes, i have no issue with the skill ups if they take the parts away btw, i did FFXI and that took me years to get 100 cos of the options avalible, it's just part of crafting.

i think mine and some other peoples gripe is; thay say it's gonna be easier to synth which isn't gonna be true, it's gonna be the same it just need less synths/mats (with the exception of sub crafts). my other issue is the parts are not the reason synth'n is so hard it's the lack of a good buying/selling structure in the game the market wards just don't cut it and for this reason ppl can't get what they need to make armor/weapons easily. reducing the amount of mats needed is only gonna mean less mats you still can't find in the wards.

[weeble]

i say parts wise, it would of given way more things to grind on ...the problem like most things are probably server population, the game is empty. if it wasn't parts that are needed from one class would of probably been the grind in the other, higher level or not there would of been tons of them in stock selling for at cost prices or even less. this just removes this from the game, lessens the amount of things to grind on, removes need of other classes. this part of the crafting should not have been removed but made even more intertwined with classes in my opinion.

like i said earlier, in ffxi you could buy ingots for cost maybe a tiny smidge more but way worth it for not making them yourself also with nuggets. things like this give grinds for one class then gives higher classes and...other craft classes in this games case a way to just buy them made and at cost. the problem isn't the craft system it's a empty server population that ain't working the way intended yet.

at the moment all these changes they making are just to make crafting more easier for people who play 2hrs a week, they don't fix problems, it's just to simplify an make it more appealing to the type of player they trying to pull in an make money off.

[Razor]

I can't help but scratch my head at why Square Enix's response to "We want crafting fixes" was to axe nearly the entire system to shreds except for the ONE aspect that actually needed fixing... the bloody mini-game.

I don't want to take up too much space with quotes but I agree with a lot of Physic's points: the guild support and treatsies were a huge part of crafting and shouldn't be given the axe. Nor should the recipes be dumbed down stupidly.

Pretty soon the recipe to make an axe is going to be "Log + Raw Ore = Fancy Axe!" That's just silly. There are numerous other things they could have done to remedy the situation than to go out and trash the system to near nothing.

1. Make it so that (like Physic said) you don't have to be rank 40 in every class just to make the parts required for a rank 20 synth.

2. To alleviate frustration they could look into making of subparts 100% instant-success like how repairing is now.

3. The whole comment about the reason behind the axe was because no one sold parts was a little unfair. The real reason no one sold parts was because we only get 10 bazaar slots. And if we need things repaired, which we desperately do because whenever we die our gear is obliterated, repairing takes 2 slots. So if I'm crafting and I only have 10 things which sell are snailpace to begin with, I'm not going to put up parts that will sell for less money at an even slower snailpace.

4. I am well aware some things needed adjusting, like taking out the requirements of specifically colored things. They could maintain the current recipe complexity while dropping any kind of color requirement and just have the finished product represent whatever materials were entered. But having a complex crafting system was a unique thing this game had that anyone with a logical brain enjoyed because it made sense. This was the first game to deviate away from the "Herp, let me just transform this square of leather and iron nugget into some crazy looking armor" and I for one enjoyed that.

5. Why eliminate treatsies? I see no logic behind this move at all. You never had to buy them or use them to begin with, they were only an extra buff if you wanted to specialize in say hatmaking. I just don't even... meh, next point.

6. Ability to have universal dyes? {Yes, please.} That is the only good thing I saw out of that entire update note but I was already so distraught by the rest of it to even get a hint of excitement out of it.

7. And this one deserves to be bolded. None of these changes will make any bit of difference if the dev team does not address the root of the crafting problem: the horrible unintuitive tedious crafting mini-game. Changing the simplicity of the materials placed into the synthesis box will not change the fact I want to gouge my eyes out with my controller after five minutes of crafting.