o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Altanas]

Personally, crafting could have stayed complex and somewhat realistic. The gripe seems to be just the level requirement for making parts. (The availability of items could have been solved by a centralised auction house but thats another issue).

The player crafter should have been involved in the fine tuning of gear. For example, a crafter with tailoring training should have been able to choose what stitch pattern appeared on a shirt. Alternatively they could choose how long a shirt is or what cut it has at the neck and how low down it goes. A crafter with painting training could choose what type of stroke or design to use. An alchemist with training could have chosen to adapt their concuctions similar to say how spells and potions are adjusted in Elder Scrolls games - say I wanted a fire potion I could make one that was just a Fire1 spell or I could make one thats all shiny like a firework depending on the variables I adapt in the crafting process.

Crossclassing could have come into things after a class has made an item. If I was a Blacksmith and I made a marauder axe for example, let me go and find an alchemist who could apply an elemental or status potion so I can have a native enspell effect. Perhaps the effect would disappear when the condition goes to 0% and after repair an alchemist needs to be sought again (hey this is an MMO lets socialise!). As another example, let my blacksmith craft my axe, but then when it is made let me hand it to a leatherworker to attach a grip which would boost the accuracy by a few percent. Again as condition wears that grip wears so you are back to base accuracy.

Also, SE should have adjusted how crafting is done. In the field I wouldnt mind whipping out my crafting item as we do now, but back in the cities or hamlets I would have liked to be crafting my shirt on a mannequin so I can see the changes made by different parts and select the ones I want. Thats another issue, parts and stuff should have been customisable, say I want a cotton shirt with a cotton patch on the elbow, why not let me make a cotton shirt with a metal elbow if I wanted to. Sadly this comes down to a design fault with the game, instead of implementing gear in parts we only have the full item.

If crafting included fine tuning every stage, then everyone would love there being so many parts to play around with. It would have turned crafters into full on dedicated jobs (coz quite literally those who love crafting would literally do nothing else if there was that amount of customisation) and Tanaka's dream would have been realised possibly.

[Physic]

I think one of the major problems when this team makes changes, is they dont understand what the game theory behind certain things are, and they dont apply any game theory to the changes they put into place.

First of all, finished products taking longer to craft made sense, because in general, you didnt skill up on finished products, they were made to either sell, or to wear. You skilled up on simple recipes, like iron nugget = iron needle. Once you were making a veleveteen doublet you were making it for people to buy, or for yourself, so the time investment of 30 minutes as someone said, was reflecting the cost of making it. You would rather pay 100k than make one yourself? perfect because the item now has a real value, furthermore someone who really wanted to make a lot of them was able to streamline the process down to a much smaller time investment, by thinking ahead and making deals. When you skilled up on cloth, then on making backs, then on the clothing, that was the actual intellegient part of crafting and manufacturing.

The reason it takes you long is because you are not a manufacture style crafter, you were not competing with them. They gathered many parts ahead of time, in bulk, while taking the time to gather just what is needed for 1 coat took a long time, gathering the same mats for 20 takes substantially less, because you obtain them in bulk.

Simplifying recipes isnt really the big issue in crafting, that is the mistake, The issue is not that there is a ton of items needed, the issue it gets tedious to actually craft for leveling purposes. The issue was mostly around the minigame, the involvement required. As far as actual crafting most of these changes are irrelevant, because people only put in the recipe once, then they pull it from the list.

Eliminating needing guild bonuses, works cross purpose to giving towns a unique identity, and increasing the likelyhood and reasons for finding a blacksmith in the blacksmith town. Taking out the need for treatise gives a crafter a lot less milestones and goals to work toward, it also eliminates a crafter choosing his focus, and planning ahead how he plans to level, and what he plans to mostly be good at making until he can get what he deems is the less important books.

Overall they are actually making crafting a lot less entertaining, which means people will want it even easier, and less part of the game because its tedious.

to give an example, if they have a portion of a game where you have to drive, and driving entails driving in a straight line holding down a button, everyone will say its tedious, and takes too long and is no fun. If they add a part that is on par with a racing simulator game, people that love racing will enjoy it greatly, the people who dont, wont do that part, but in a large varied community, its better to make things that appeal to certain people, rather than make something that appeals to no one. In this case people are going to want even more to eliminate the whole crafting process.

in all honesty if they want to go this direction fine, but then dont muck around about it, just kill it, dont make people drive down a straight road for 1000 hours with nothing entertaining about it. Instead of making the whole crafting aspect more fun, they are only making it even more of a grind, with even less thought, but the exact same amount of robotic crafting.

I wont even touch upon the obvious economic issues and flaws with taking out the demand for about 50% of materials (believe it or not, having all those parts used up way more materials)

[Payadopa]

I really hope some parts of the "old system" will come back in a way. What's wrong with -some- cross class crafting? Maybe not from lvl 1 but from 25+. I also think it's okay for a lvl 50 crafter to need stuff from 2-4 other professions if it's an awesome item.

* In the future, it will be made so that players benefit from developing skills in multiple disciplines.

I hope this is true. lol

Sometimes it feels like the players complain and instead of changing parts of it, everything gets thrown out the window.
Just like enemy AI. Or the EXP bar in the menu (witch looked way better than the current bar, but ppl were too lazy to press -). I usually approve changes by Yoshi's team, but this time I don't really like it.

[Climm]

I'm in favor of the changes 100%
They should, however, make it so those who are more into crafting use their skills to create the best weapons.
In other words, reward skillful play in some way.

[Kiote]

maybe they should implement a meaning full change like Making Quality effect HQ chance..

[Denmo]

maybe they should implement a meaning full change like Making Quality effect HQ chance..

except it does, just not in a way that feels right to you.

Keep on topic, though. We're talking about changes to recipes, I thought. They haven't mentioned yet what other changes might occur, and we're still a good month+ away from the patch itself.

[Chiz]

I'm fine with the changes, although it will definitely shift how crafters go about their business. The main thing I got from the post was they were getting rid of parts, which were typically the most time consuming and difficult parts to HQ given they were often similar level to the finished item itself, often consuming huge amounts of Raw materials for that +2 or +3 part to go into a finished good.

SE could've also made the Careful Synthesis process faster, or increased the HQ rate of parts/materials and kept the old recipes but its obvious they chose to go a different direction by cutting out a time consuming part of the process. This will also have the benefit of significantly cutting down on the amount of inventory and market ward clutter, along with NPC trash that many crafters such as myself have probably grown accustomed to and frustrated with.

[Esk]

Oh and wow for a good fast argument/debate/trolling today...
We got this to over 400 posts and onto the 2nd page when sorted by most comments in less then 12hours..

But not a single dev post.. sigh..

[Denmo]

Oh and wow for a good fast argument/debate/trolling today...
We got this to over 400 posts and onto the 2nd page when sorted by most comments in less then 12hours..

But not a single dev post.. sigh..

Heh, I'm sure they're reading regardless. This is a huge change and will require a huge response to our huge response.

[Kiote]

Oh and wow for a good fast argument/debate/trolling today...
We got this to over 400 posts and onto the 2nd page when sorted by most comments in less then 12hours..

But not a single dev post.. sigh..

lol What are they gonna say? "Oops."?