Au Ra physiology and other lore.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Um Ok? I'm just pointing out the Devs are completely making stuff up but rather using the real world as some level of basis. Its not a 1 for 1 thing but its not something that is completely abandoned.

Not disputing the mythological Origins of a lot of the themes. Heavensward especially is borrowing heavily from Norse mythology.

I just see nothing but futility in arguing Eugenics and Genetics in a universe where our sciences aren't fundamental laws like in our universe.

So yes, environment practicality is a definite but as far as those other two go, they're taking it way further than any level of application considering Hydaelyn and Earth vary slightly in their laws of physics and nature.

[jomoru]

Not disputing the mythological Origins of a lot of the themes. Heavensward especially is borrowing heavily from Norse mythology.

I just see nothing but futility in arguing Eugenics and Genetics in a universe where our sciences aren't fundamental laws like in our universe.

So yes, environment practicality is a definite but as far as those other two go, they're taking it way further than any level of application considering Hydaelyn and Earth vary slightly in their laws of physics and nature.

Well ultimately we have two things to argue from, what the Devs might have been inspired by Or developing psychic powers and reading their brains directly.

[lololink]

Well ultimately we have two things to argue from, what the Devs might have been inspired by Or developing psychic powers and reading their brains directly.

Yes let's read their brains !

*Focus on reading Koji and Oda's brains*

Okay I'm in ! Let's search for those naming conventions now.... Oh what's this ? 3.0 revelations ?

Oh dear, oh no this can't be hapenning, no no nooooooooooo!!!! *collapse*

[Kaiser-Ace]

Yes let's read their brains !

*Focus on reading Koji and Oda's brains*

Okay I'm in ! Let's search for those naming conventions now.... Oh what's this ? 3.0 revelations ?

Oh dear, oh no this can't be hapenning, no no nooooooooooo!!!! *collapse*

I got ya Lololink. <Swift Cast -> Resurrection>

If what's in their heads is that bad I neither want to know nor attempt this again. So I guess we're back to inference and wild speculation.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Steppes often have very short sparse vegetation, most that's there is underground or only gets few inches past it unless if it's some sort of bush, hardly enough foliage to cover themselves up. I primarily saw it in a hunting sense, but I suppose it could be in other ways.

I've mentioned that large builds function just fine in Steppe topography, as a side note the largest man in the world is a Mongolian so there's something going on with them! That's the thing, the girls were literally designed to look like something you'd want to protect, so I doubt they had "Lean and lethal" in mind whenever making them or their lore. They're incredibly frail looking, and unless if the muscular system of the Auri vastly differs between men and women (Which doesn't generally happen for a lot of reasons!) the Auri girls probably don't do anything. Likewise, if men were just stuck home, (Which is a little silly, they're nomadic people, homes are very temporary and they can easily hunt on the go) then that's not an efficient allocation of tribe members. It'd just be better to have the group generally together so accidents that separate the men and women of a tribe entirely don't occur.

Carnivorous plants /do exist/ and sentient rock creatures have a basis in a lot of mythology. All the dev team does is take one or two liberties with the myth or creature. Magic works /with/ logic though. Gravity will pull things to the earth (Dalamud) unless if a significant amount of force keeps things away (Aether). It's all about building up from reality and having consistent rules. Sentient rock creatures don't just exist for no reason, they exist because Aether is the life force within sentient creatures and some mass of rocks just happened to get a continuous surge of it, giving it a soul as it would a newborn.

Snip

Crossbreeding has been confirmed though with mixed races children as well.

If we don't selective breed for traits consciously (Which I disagree with, racist people tend to support eugenics quite consciously for example), then neither would the Au Ra, the key word is consciously though. The Au Ra

Beast race probably won't happen, especially not one with next to zero dimorphism (Much to my sadness). We know SE won't do anything close to that for a lot of reasons.

I wouldn't know! I've avoided the video. Ribbit.

Maybe! It's a weird decision not gonna lie, but I hope we get more info on it.

Hmph, well I can give you that! I definitely misspoke. However eugenics is something very much so encompassing in a lot of societies, technically that blip of "Mixed races are possible but usually frowned upon due to societal conventions" is eugenics, which isn't even too foreign of a concept within our own species.

You bring up that it's not "Gene X produced Y in the organism" (or at least it's more complex than that), and while I agree with you there, why would genes that cause such as muscular density or height in the male or females work like that (Ie "The gene X produces the height in the women.").

Ah, I see what you mean now. It does mention that their tribes are "close-knit" as well which generally means "You're not marrying outside the tribe" which is technically eugenics as well, especially if their reasoning is "Our tribe is strong! We must remain pure and not allow those weaker tribes to pollute our children".

1. Of course not, but chances are they would, even the more abstract cultures in FFXIV are based on real life creatures, lion prides with the Sun Seekers for example. It's kind of hard to construct a world in a vacuum, while it would be amazing, I kind of doubt that they made an entire culture bereft of real life influences.

We know how genetics work however, that's why it can't be a cop out. "Aether/Magic/Allagan tech" follow rules that the dev team establishes (As they create this world), if it's stated in canon "Aether can not cause floating rocks" then we see floating rocks in game, "Aether" can't be the answer, this is not the case however.

I dunno, I doubt that Ilberd or Lolorito want Rauhbahn dead, so chances are once he was subdued, the best healing money could buy went into keeping him alive. And looking at the cinematic cutscene in Heavenswards opening, which is likely the most accurate cutscene, not much blood was actually split, people have lost their entire arms before in much less clean ways and lived, so I don't see why Rauhbahn wouldn't.

Of course, chisels and small hammers also work with stone pretty effectively too. It's not necessarily the most effective method, but if you kept trying to you'd eventually wear away the rock. Like I said, it might be more of just the case of disrupting something Aetheric field via continual damage causing the host object to dissipate if there is one, Kinda like how if you

2. It's reasonable enough! I can only hope one day our questions will be answered by the lore devs and those answers make good sense.

3. Well, apparently it all depends on chromosomes in terms of fertility, as long as the "races of man" have the same amount of chromosomes, then the hybrid will be fertile. It brings up the question on what would get passed on genetically, though? If genetic specific eye color is transmittable, only Allagan royality and their descendents have Allagan royality eyes after all, then what else would transfer? I mean, mixed races does have certain connotation that they're not just like the mom or something, even with pokemon they still get traits from dad in the form of egg moves!

5. It's possible, looking at the 2014 census it makes a good bit! Aaand there's nothing much else to say on that though! We really don't know why they made the Auri men so tall outside of possible lore reasons, I just think that's bunk and doesn't make much sense.

How wouldn't making a "Tough woman" Xaela model make some people happy and some people unhappy? Sure it's more work for the devs to do, but that's like saying "They shouldn't add a healer job next time because that's more work for the devs to do."

They don't have to. If they wanted to own up to their mistakes they ought to. If they just didn't use the same model for both clans to begin with they wouldn't have to worry about that though.

It'll help more than just leaving the "tough female" models at two choices that are relatively bland besides weird skin tones (For Roes) and 3/4 meanfase options, unlike Miqo'te or Au Ra which have a few things extra (Things such as the tails or horns/ears). You don't fix a problem by letting it stagnant!

I won't fear them, just demand their extinction. Now.. If they looked like Aplhinaud but a little bit older.. The ladies can stay too.

Snip .

Even with that, you can't deny that Hydaelyn and Earth share many similarities. It's not like SE thought of an entirely brand new system of passing genes along through parent to child, so I'm sure things like survival of the fittest, genes and how those work, and choosing a mate based on certain qualities exist in Hydaelyn as they do here.

[Cilia]

Loud noises!

While mixed race relationships (marriages) aren't all that common and are still looked at askance by most people, they do exist. Regardless, it's not a matter of eugenics (or racial purity, if you want to go there) that drives people to refrain from them these days, but the social order that is instilled in people when they're young. People also tend to form groups that are similar to theyselves (based on any number of things, race included), so there's that.

In regards to Xaela tribal organization, if we're going to go on real-world examples, look at the American Indians. While they were generally pretty insular, they would take women and children from other tribes during war and "adopt" them into the tribe. It's a pretty brutal way to get more people in the tribe to be sure, but it helps to prevent genetic degradation through inbreeding... which sticking solely to one's own tribe would inevitably result in, leading to the death of the tribe.

Alternatively, a Xaela might be exiled from his or her tribe and go on to form a new tribe of similar outcasts, not unlike how wolves make new packs. This also supports genetic diversity and health.

Either way, eugenics are not present.

OK... it's really quite simple to explain the sexual dimorphism. For the sake of argument, let's say Au Ra have the same sex chromosomes as humans (XX / XY). If their sex chromosomes produce a female (XX), there is an inhibitor sequence on the X chromosomes that limits their growth when they hit puberty so they don't end up as tall or muscular as the males; this sequence only expresses if the Au Ra has two X chromosomes, so only the females are small. By extension, the males do not have this smaller stature, either because their Y chromosome changes their growth or the limiter is not expressed without two X chromosomes.

Bam! Sexual dimorphism. (Consequently this is what I meant when I said "genetics can be used to explain anything.") Why these are expressed among the Au Ra I do not know, but there you have it.

1. I'm not saying there is no real-world inspiration for the Xaela, but until I know what it is I can't make judgment calls on what their society is like. (For the record I do think they're similar to the Mongolians, since they sound an awful lot like the Mardu Horde from the most recent Magic expansion who were based on... you guessed it, the Mongolians.)

See above. Also, the "rules of magic" can be changed to suit the authors' needs, which is why it's the ultimate cop-out.

While I can see why Lolorito might want Raubahn alive, the reality is he had his arm cut off and was engaging in vigorous physical activity. He already lost a lot of blood with that arm (even if the cutscene / FMV doesn't show it, if you want to apply real-world logic it happened), and with that large open wound and accelerated heart rate he'd be losing more every second he went medically unattended to. The body can only sustain itself on endorphins and adrenaline for so long; after a few minutes, at best, he would collapse simply from the lack of oxygen. At best; this does not include engaging Ilberd in heated combat. There's a reason they use tourniquets to cut off blood flow before amputating limbs.

Bladed and pointed weapons (most nonmagical weapons available to PCs) are designed to puncture or rend flesh, not break rock. While using such a thing on a rock monster might wear it down eventually, you're more likely to end up ruining the weapon before you accomplish this. A properly trained MNK has the best chance of really winning against rock monsters due to their fists bludgeoning things, followed in a very distant second by WAR thanks to their weapons relying more on force than finesse. Ergo, fighting rock monsters with daggers (or most available weapons) does not make sense. (Of course, MNKs could crack said rock monster and the people with bladed weapons could exploit those cracks... but we don't always have a MNK and that's a very restrictive way to fight.)

3. I do not pretend to know what genetic hybrids among the "races of man" would be like, and there is no way at all to know. Genetic hybridization can produce expressions not seen in either parent (ligers, bred for their skills in magic, are more massive than either of their parents, f'ex), so it's not wise to dwell on that question.

5. See above about sexual dimorphism.

Yes, making Xaela women more robust would make some people happy and some people not. I don't know why they chose to make them just as waifish as the Raen women, but I'm not going to say it's stupid until I get an explicit answer for that specific question. The most likely answer is they didn't have the time or didn't want to put the time into making two different models, and while I don't think that's the best reason, it's not my place to judge that as stupid (or "bunk"). In terms of lore, see above point about sexual dimorphism.

Only time will tell if making the Auri women (and men, y'know!) the way they are was a mistake. If they deem it was and redo the models, and consider giving everyone a free Fantasia their way of accepting responsibility for it, OK. Until then, stop trying to say it was a mistake; that's just your opinion.

Using the same model for both clans is, incidentally, the norm; the Hyur are the exception. I do not expect any new race to have different models depending on their clan, and I do not think anyone else should either.

Again, personal gripes aside, there is no way to know if introducing a new "tough" female model would interest people. Leaving it as does not help, but adding one might not help either... it's a risky proposition, and not doing so errs on the side of caution.

Leave the doughy walrus midget men alone! They're peaceful fishermen who make jewelry! The world can't be populated by bishounen like Alphinaud... you can't complain about Auri ladies being too cutesy and then demand my fictional walrus men be similarly built or they'll face genocide! Boo double standard!

[jomoru]

5. See above about sexual dimorphism.

Yes, making Xaela women more robust would make some people happy and some people not. I don't know why they chose to make them just as waifish as the Raen women, but I'm not going to say it's stupid until I get an explicit answer for that specific question. The most likely answer is they didn't have the time or didn't want to put the time into making two different models, and while I don't think that's the best reason, it's not my place to judge that as stupid (or "bunk"). In terms of lore, see above point about sexual dimorphism.

Only time will tell if making the Auri women (and men, y'know!) the way they are was a mistake. If they deem it was and redo the models, and consider giving everyone a free Fantasia their way of accepting responsibility for it, OK. Until then, stop trying to say it was a mistake; that's just your opinion.

I'd rather Xaela males be made smaller and Raen Females made larger it would make more sense based on real world populations, however they aren't likely do that. So better to come up with some interesting justification for such. IF they ever do decide to invert the setup(big females, small males) likely it will be by adding a third clan.

[Samcaesar]

Horrifying. Eeek!

Pretty reasonable, but if one chooses to not have children with others because of specific traits, isn't that eugenics (Specifically "negative eugenics") as well? That social order instilled into children has to come from somewhere, chances are it's alienation and a "Us versus them" mentality. Ultimately if society tells these people to not do things such as "reproduce with those different than you" then that's eugenics.

Huh, really interesting thing you brought up about the capture of women and children with Native American tribes, I did not know that! Pretty interesting method to preventing inbreeding, as harsh as it is.

But, I still would wonder why would they not wish the look for the best mate when either exiled, surely they wouldn't go "Whelp, first girl I've found, time to make babies and start a new tribe." It's a wonder though, why wouldn't the Auri choose the best of the fellow outcasts to mate with? If he doesn't his new tribe doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, alternatively why would Auri women be outcasted? In either case would I feel a Auri man would still go for the best mate possible, if he's got options, he's got reasons to pick one of them over the rest.

Reasonable explanation of genetics and sexual dimorphism, but I feel that it's ignoring that height is controlled by genes that are also present on the other chromosomes, as prepubescent growth stems has to from something along the presence of the a variety of heights with men and women that cause average height differences to only difference of about 5 inches in the US in the united states (Showing that sex chromosomes aren't the sole factor in humans at least). One has so wonder why these variations aren't a thing in the Au Ra, like, is puberty not a thing for Au Ra? As a side note, I'm a bit curious on what the genetics of Lalafell and the various beastmen would look like, considering they're on the opposite end of the spectrum of having incredibly little amount of sexual dimorphism.


1. Reasonable, I'm just making my claims based off what my knowledge of nomadic cultures in steppes general gives me. I'd actually really appreciate it if one could find an example pointing in the opposite direction of my claims, it'd be great for discussion! (Mmn, Mardu <3 Alesha is the best.)

They could change the rules, but whenever an incredibly obvious retcon occurs, it certainly cheapens the world, doesn't it? It's why authors need to stick to rules whenever developing things like magic. In either situations, I don't think we should, as consumers, settle for cop-outs :P

I'd figure Raubahn would quickly go into shock considering the sudden trauma, then Lolorito could have healers on standby prevent Raubahn from dying. Like I said though, people have an amazing body in terms to survival, the shock in this case would cause Raubahn's heart to suddenly slow down, along with causing him to likely pass out rather quickly. It's not like they left his body to rot only for him to remain alive, he was captured and we do see Raubahn with a nursed wound, it implies the moment they could they gave Raubahn medical attention then tossed him into prison.

And yet the axe was developed to chop wood and the pickaxe functions in the repeated hitting of a sharp point, as opposed to a dull one. But, as I said, perhaps it's not a situation of just destroying the rock that makes up of it, but instead of disrupting the aether that keeps it alive, repeated damages from any weapon somehow causing that. It would make sense considering spells are also effective against rock monsters that you wouldn't figure be too useful against rocks, such as the various fire spells or Bio/Miasma being more of an Aether based contamination as opposed to an actual one.

3. Very good point! And I agree, I think we can reach the agreement that we don't know what a mixed race would look like, it could even give us something that looks vastly different. Maybe once Heavensward is out and the dev team gets a break we can bug the lore team for info?

5. To condense posts, let's talk about possibilities for that cause of there. as opposed to down here at 5.

Would people really get that upset over Xaela women becoming more tougher looking? It's not like they lack the option as the Raen would remain as waifish as they are. If the answer is "We didn't have enough time" then why shouldn't they dedicate time afterwards to solving that issue? Honestly I feel several additions to the character customization screen is something every player would support. (Also forgive me for the various terms >_> I'm not really sure how I was exposed to slang words such as bunk but I have!

If no one says it was a mistake, then SE won't know at least some people thought it was a mistake. Money shouldn't be the only reason SE decides to change things in this game after all (And it isn't if you look at some of their justifications and some of their changes, in particular the nerfing of dungeons and the like). If they decide to change the men, I won't be complaining honestly! But there's much less people complaining about how they look possessing a more unique identity (Like, while their torsos are similar to elezen. Auri's men go to comparison, damn Auri men have some waspish waists and a much more noticeable difference in facial structure)

It is, but why should it be the case? If the Hyurs differences proved something is that SE is willing to make differences for sensible lore, the Highlanders coming from a very harsh mountainous region, while the Midlanders come from a much more placid one. Considering the separation and different environments the two clans live in, I at least expected them to look different besides scale color and minor skin tone choices.

What have they got to lose? Fantasia junkies already jump around between the races constantly. heck I'd actually pay for a fantasia (Or just use the two free ones I will have >_>) to change my Xaela into a tough Xaela lady, but I can't! If it's the artists feeling they wasted time, well tell that to the poor devs who designed the original Steps of Faith :P They're gonna make things people won't use, why not try to hit the mark and appeal to all sorts of people? (Bringing it back to the Steps of Faith, instead of nerfing it to heck and back, they make a storymode version and an actual version!)

Hardly! We've got cutesy ladies out the butt in the game, we need some cutesy dudes somewhere! Perhaps.. Some clan differences with doughy walrus mini men in one, bishounen men in the other would suffice :P

[LineageRazor]

Would people really get that upset over Xaela women becoming more tougher looking? It's not like they lack the option as the Raen would remain as waifish as they are. If the answer is "We didn't have enough time" then why shouldn't they dedicate time afterwards to solving that issue?

Once the Benchmark was released and players were able to design their characters, that was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the possibility of making Xaela into the highlanders of the Au Ra. This kind of thing that we've gotten an actual dev response on: While I don't have a link for it, a while back someone posted that they were dissatisfied with the way that one Keeper of the Moon face type lacked the pronounced canines that other Keeper faces have. They liked the face, but wanted the same teeth that the other Keepers have. A dev replied that there were no plans to change this, as it would be unfair to folks who would be irritated at suddenly having longer teeth.

Adjusting the Xaela models to make Xaela fems more imposing and buff (and presumably, adjusting Raen men to be a bit scrawnier) would be a whole new level of this kind of disturbance. Suddenly players who'd picked Xaela simply because they liked the dark scales would suddenly see their lizard-lady waifus git swoll - very off-putting, for some!

Once the models are released for public consumption, changes to them are very unlikely to happen.

[Isklexi]

Genetics!

Gene expression is a grab bag of behavior. Some things show up from a single gene variation while others use Rube Goldberg levels of interaction between many different genes. It's possible that the sequences responsible for Au Ra height are linked in some way to other less obvious traits. It could be that these other traits were beneficial enough that they outweighed any disadvantage from smaller stature amongst the females (or taller males depending on context).

An example to illustrate this is homosexuality (hopefully this isn't too controversial to bring up). This trait has obvious disadvantages from an evolutionary standpoint. A creature with this trait is significantly less likely to pass on its genetic legacy to the next generation, and yet, the trait appears with mild frequency throughout wild animal populations (notably among fruit bats for some reason). Scientists still don't know why for sure, but it must provide some kind of benefit for it not to have been selected out of the gene pool by now.