Au Ra physiology and other lore.

[Samcaesar]

Horrifying. Eeek!

Pretty reasonable, but if one chooses to not have children with others because of specific traits, isn't that eugenics (Specifically "negative eugenics") as well? That social order instilled into children has to come from somewhere, chances are it's alienation and a "Us versus them" mentality. Ultimately if society tells these people to not do things such as "reproduce with those different than you" then that's eugenics.

Huh, really interesting thing you brought up about the capture of women and children with Native American tribes, I did not know that! Pretty interesting method to preventing inbreeding, as harsh as it is.

But, I still would wonder why would they not wish the look for the best mate when either exiled, surely they wouldn't go "Whelp, first girl I've found, time to make babies and start a new tribe." It's a wonder though, why wouldn't the Auri choose the best of the fellow outcasts to mate with? If he doesn't his new tribe doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, alternatively why would Auri women be outcasted? In either case would I feel a Auri man would still go for the best mate possible, if he's got options, he's got reasons to pick one of them over the rest.

Reasonable explanation of genetics and sexual dimorphism, but I feel that it's ignoring that height is controlled by genes that are also present on the other chromosomes, as prepubescent growth stems has to from something along the presence of the a variety of heights with men and women that cause average height differences to only difference of about 5 inches in the US in the united states (Showing that sex chromosomes aren't the sole factor in humans at least). One has so wonder why these variations aren't a thing in the Au Ra, like, is puberty not a thing for Au Ra? As a side note, I'm a bit curious on what the genetics of Lalafell and the various beastmen would look like, considering they're on the opposite end of the spectrum of having incredibly little amount of sexual dimorphism.


1. Reasonable, I'm just making my claims based off what my knowledge of nomadic cultures in steppes general gives me. I'd actually really appreciate it if one could find an example pointing in the opposite direction of my claims, it'd be great for discussion! (Mmn, Mardu <3 Alesha is the best.)

They could change the rules, but whenever an incredibly obvious retcon occurs, it certainly cheapens the world, doesn't it? It's why authors need to stick to rules whenever developing things like magic. In either situations, I don't think we should, as consumers, settle for cop-outs :P

I'd figure Raubahn would quickly go into shock considering the sudden trauma, then Lolorito could have healers on standby prevent Raubahn from dying. Like I said though, people have an amazing body in terms to survival, the shock in this case would cause Raubahn's heart to suddenly slow down, along with causing him to likely pass out rather quickly. It's not like they left his body to rot only for him to remain alive, he was captured and we do see Raubahn with a nursed wound, it implies the moment they could they gave Raubahn medical attention then tossed him into prison.

And yet the axe was developed to chop wood and the pickaxe functions in the repeated hitting of a sharp point, as opposed to a dull one. But, as I said, perhaps it's not a situation of just destroying the rock that makes up of it, but instead of disrupting the aether that keeps it alive, repeated damages from any weapon somehow causing that. It would make sense considering spells are also effective against rock monsters that you wouldn't figure be too useful against rocks, such as the various fire spells or Bio/Miasma being more of an Aether based contamination as opposed to an actual one.

3. Very good point! And I agree, I think we can reach the agreement that we don't know what a mixed race would look like, it could even give us something that looks vastly different. Maybe once Heavensward is out and the dev team gets a break we can bug the lore team for info?

5. To condense posts, let's talk about possibilities for that cause of there. as opposed to down here at 5.

Would people really get that upset over Xaela women becoming more tougher looking? It's not like they lack the option as the Raen would remain as waifish as they are. If the answer is "We didn't have enough time" then why shouldn't they dedicate time afterwards to solving that issue? Honestly I feel several additions to the character customization screen is something every player would support. (Also forgive me for the various terms >_> I'm not really sure how I was exposed to slang words such as bunk but I have!

If no one says it was a mistake, then SE won't know at least some people thought it was a mistake. Money shouldn't be the only reason SE decides to change things in this game after all (And it isn't if you look at some of their justifications and some of their changes, in particular the nerfing of dungeons and the like). If they decide to change the men, I won't be complaining honestly! But there's much less people complaining about how they look possessing a more unique identity (Like, while their torsos are similar to elezen. Auri's men go to comparison, damn Auri men have some waspish waists and a much more noticeable difference in facial structure)

It is, but why should it be the case? If the Hyurs differences proved something is that SE is willing to make differences for sensible lore, the Highlanders coming from a very harsh mountainous region, while the Midlanders come from a much more placid one. Considering the separation and different environments the two clans live in, I at least expected them to look different besides scale color and minor skin tone choices.

What have they got to lose? Fantasia junkies already jump around between the races constantly. heck I'd actually pay for a fantasia (Or just use the two free ones I will have >_>) to change my Xaela into a tough Xaela lady, but I can't! If it's the artists feeling they wasted time, well tell that to the poor devs who designed the original Steps of Faith :P They're gonna make things people won't use, why not try to hit the mark and appeal to all sorts of people? (Bringing it back to the Steps of Faith, instead of nerfing it to heck and back, they make a storymode version and an actual version!)

Hardly! We've got cutesy ladies out the butt in the game, we need some cutesy dudes somewhere! Perhaps.. Some clan differences with doughy walrus mini men in one, bishounen men in the other would suffice :P

[LineageRazor]

Would people really get that upset over Xaela women becoming more tougher looking? It's not like they lack the option as the Raen would remain as waifish as they are. If the answer is "We didn't have enough time" then why shouldn't they dedicate time afterwards to solving that issue?

Once the Benchmark was released and players were able to design their characters, that was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the possibility of making Xaela into the highlanders of the Au Ra. This kind of thing that we've gotten an actual dev response on: While I don't have a link for it, a while back someone posted that they were dissatisfied with the way that one Keeper of the Moon face type lacked the pronounced canines that other Keeper faces have. They liked the face, but wanted the same teeth that the other Keepers have. A dev replied that there were no plans to change this, as it would be unfair to folks who would be irritated at suddenly having longer teeth.

Adjusting the Xaela models to make Xaela fems more imposing and buff (and presumably, adjusting Raen men to be a bit scrawnier) would be a whole new level of this kind of disturbance. Suddenly players who'd picked Xaela simply because they liked the dark scales would suddenly see their lizard-lady waifus git swoll - very off-putting, for some!

Once the models are released for public consumption, changes to them are very unlikely to happen.

[Isklexi]

Genetics!

Gene expression is a grab bag of behavior. Some things show up from a single gene variation while others use Rube Goldberg levels of interaction between many different genes. It's possible that the sequences responsible for Au Ra height are linked in some way to other less obvious traits. It could be that these other traits were beneficial enough that they outweighed any disadvantage from smaller stature amongst the females (or taller males depending on context).

An example to illustrate this is homosexuality (hopefully this isn't too controversial to bring up). This trait has obvious disadvantages from an evolutionary standpoint. A creature with this trait is significantly less likely to pass on its genetic legacy to the next generation, and yet, the trait appears with mild frequency throughout wild animal populations (notably among fruit bats for some reason). Scientists still don't know why for sure, but it must provide some kind of benefit for it not to have been selected out of the gene pool by now.

[jomoru]

An example to illustrate this is homosexuality (hopefully this isn't too controversial to bring up). This trait has obvious disadvantages from an evolutionary standpoint. .

Male homosexuality actually HAS been proven to have distinct evolutionary advantages the problem is you're thinking in simple pair based setup. Rather Women with gay children and siblings tend to have more children enough to cancel out the drop off from lack of homosexual reproduction. Thus the bloodline carries on through a smaller set of breeding females while the males are able to help provide for those children, at least in the village based set up our biology is set for.

[Cilia]

I don't know what we're yelling about!

Choosing a mate based on their ethnicity is not eugenics; it's a matter of social boundaries or custom. Incidentally, this does lead to a greater incidence of genetic diseases among certain ethnic groups (such as Sickle Cell among African-Americans and Tay-Sachs among the Jewish people), and yet despite knowing this people continue to do so for whatever reason. Humans do not run entirely on logic, and this can be seen when people will break those social boundaries and/or customs and choose a mate based purely on love and affection (unquantifiable concepts) despite the social climate deeming it unacceptable.

Xaela exiles (of either sex) will probably look for the best mates, but if there's no attraction might choose not to have children, or might have children to give the tribe more bodies regardless of how overall weak those children could be. See above on illogical choices among human mating habits. Au Ra aren't human, but they probably follow similar emotional processes (especially the Xaela; "fiery wills," remember?). People are complicated, and rarely choose a mate based solely on the advantages it can give offspring.

In regards to reasons for being exiled... don't know. There are numerous possibilities, but without knowing their customs anything is possible. Stealing food, leaving a tribe-mate to die, killing PoWs, etc.

My example of how sexual dimorphism can be present in Au Ra was a simplification for the sake of argument. Isklexi explained it better than I care to:

Laconic: genetics are complicated.

(As an aside, do not worry about discussing homosexuality, buddy. I had to try and explain to people how Auri sex organs can still be compatible despite the difference in size between the men and women, so... yeah.)

I seriously doubt SE has the Au Ra genome mapped out, and trying to apply the human genome to them is fruitless since they aren't exactly human.

1. The point is they can say anything is possible, because "aether / magic / Allagan tech," and we just have to accept it because the reasoning can't be contested without scientific study of what is and isn't possible though the application of "aether / magic / Allagan tech."

Raubahn not going into shock from the loss of his arm already breaks real-world logic, never mind fighting in that state for any length of time without hours of medical care and days (if not weeks) to recuperate.

Pickaxes are effective mining tools because they are designed to break up the structure of the rock by focusing all their force into one point; axes are not. Sledgehammers bludgeon the rock and break up their structure to the point pickaxes can be used. The rest is "magic," which can be neither proven nor disproven.

5. Don't know if or how many people would be upset if they changed Xaela females to be sturdier; however...

Adjusting the Xaela models to make Xaela fems more imposing and buff (and presumably, adjusting Raen men to be a bit scrawnier) would be a... disturbance. Suddenly players who'd picked Xaela simply because they liked the dark scales would suddenly see their lizard-lady waifus git swole - very off-putting, for some!

Once the models are released for public consumption, changes to them are very unlikely to happen.

... is what I've been saying all along.

Dungeons and player models are very different bits of content, so stating that they change dungeons and so should be willing to change character models is not a very strong argument.

There's a major difference in saying "The Auri women's design was a mistake!" and "I think the Auri women's design was a mistake!"; the former passes it as truth, while the latter acknowledges it as just your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but do not try and pass it off as the truth.

I don't claim to know why the Hyur are the exception among races when it comes to having different models based on the clans. Regardless, the fact of the matter is they are, and expecting any other race to have unique models based on their clan is probably just setting yourself up for disappointment. Lore justification? Genetics.

I already said the doughy walrus midget men were cute and cuddly! Like god-damn teddy bears! Besides, we already have cute males; this is almost literally what Lalafell are for! They're not bishounen; that's what Midlander Hyur and Elezen are for, maaaaaaaan!

[Kytrin]

maaaaaaaan!

This is in no way related to the current discussion, but I went into a giggle fit when I read that. Thank you for the Fairy Tail reference! Even if it wasn't intentional it was a hysterical way to break up the seriousness of the discussion. :P

[zuzu-bq]

I don't even know what is happening in this thread anymore.

[Kytrin]

I don't even know what is happening in this thread anymore.

Looks to me like they've gotten into a massive debate about how realistic the Au Ra physiology and culture are. In particular, there seems to be a huge amount of debate about the height/build differences between the males and females and how that could possibly come about. I think there's also some stuff mixed in about Raen vs. Xaela and how the Xaela should be the Au Ra equivalent of Highlanders (which I admit would be kind of cool...).

Personally I'm not going to stress about it either way. I've built my female Raen and I'm perfectly happy with her as is. Though I do recommend reading over some of the posts. They're quite interesting. Some of these guys got REALLY in depth.

[Cilia]

This is in no way related to the current discussion, but I went into a giggle fit when I read that. Thank you for the Fairy Tail reference! Even if it wasn't intentional it was a hysterical way to break up the seriousness of the discussion. :P

Actually I'm basing them on cuteified version of the Tuskarr from Warcraft, a race of... walrus men with an Inuit-like culture.

Still, I'm glad someone is laughing, because being all super-cereal like this all the time is draining.

I don't even know what is happening in this thread anymore.

We're actually going into in-depth discussions on (gasp!) Au Ra physiology and social structure (other lore) instead of just posting pictures of moé moé lizard lady waifus.

Git gud scrub!

[Kytrin]

Actually I'm basing them on cuteified version of the Tuskarr from Warcraft, a race of... walrus men with an Inuit-like culture.

I remember those! I spent many, many, many, weeks trying to up my rep with them before I said eff it and wandered off to do other things before Cataclysm came out. :P

On a more thread related note, and apologies if this came up before and I missed it, since I THINK Othard is located in that misty vaguely labled Garlean Empire portion of the map...what do you guys think the odds of Au Ra having come into contact with Ala Mhigo before it fell, or even Gridania, before they became refugees?

For that matter, why go to Vesper Bay of all places? That's all the way down in the southern tip of the continent. I can understand avoiding Garlean patrols and the like, but doesn't Limsa have certified pirates preying on those? Just seems like they went way out of their way in that regard.