No new SMNs for SMN?

[Spiritreaver1217]

Just wanted to say that while the question of whether SCH or SMN is more 'summoner-y' is beyond silly, it is still a better thing to discuss than the OP imo.

Carry on.

[Lemuria]

OMG GON DIE! Titan saves you.

Titan generates aggro like a Buddhist monk seeking enlightenment. Unless he was out BEFORE you pulled aggro, there's no chance in a million that he's going to save anyone. I can rip aggro from him in SOLO play, never mind if I had to summon him to take hits in a party where other DPS hit significantly harder than we do, since our damage is split 70/30 between us and pet.

Titan can't tank any more than we can.

[Allyrion]

Unless your talking about Enkindle which doesn't make them better, it just makes your pet do a cool lazer light show, then you have to wait 5 min for the next showing.

That's pretty much traditional FF summons though.(Though the numbers are low)

Actually, all of Sch's abilities affect their pets. Sch pet gets a DoT on them Leech it away. Sch pet low on life Adloquium them. Unless Smn is always sustaining (which both Sch and Smn have) their pet after they get hit with a hard hitting poison DoT that pet is going to die. Plus if the Smn is too focus on trying to keep their pet alive, their overall dps will crash and burn.

That's not synergy, that's simply a role difference. Healers are made to interact with their teammates, and your example the pet is just one of them.
All your examples are simply SCH and pet healing together, but not having any meaningful interaction outside of Rouse which isn't unique to it.

Similarly, the SMN and the pet do damage together.
And Contagion is a level of synergy beyond that.

Regardless, SMN is what it is because they summon Primal egis.
FF11 was the only where Summoners revolved around the pet anyway.
Yuna was a Summoner but her main role was a WHM.
Rydia was a Summoner, but her main role was a BLM.

Summons traditionally take a back seat to the Summoner and every iteration has changed.
The name has never held the meaning people are now giving it.

[Spiritreaver1217]

Titan generates aggro like a Buddhist monk seeking enlightenment. Unless he was out BEFORE you pulled aggro, there's no chance in a million that he's going to save anyone. I can rip aggro from him in SOLO play, never mind if I had to summon him to take hits in a party where other DPS hit significantly harder than we do, since our damage is split 70/30 between us and pet.

Titan can't tank any more than we can.

Speaking for myself alone here, but calling shenanigans.

If you swap egis mid-fight solo, of course Titan is gonna be a bit in getting hate and doubly so if you are going balls to the wall DPS-wise. Now if you summon him, then turn a few seconds(i know, blasphemy! A DPS actually turning from a mob to help a tank get aggro!) and let him catch up, Titan is better than quite a few player tanks i have come across.

As for ripping aggro, again if you actually let Titan build up some hate and do things to support him(putting Sustain on him, casting E4E, and slowing down hate generation on your part), i find it hard to buy that you are consistently pulling hate from him.

Not getting into your conversation with Asierid, but again, just disagreeing with you claims about Titan-egi. No, summoning him isn't a 'get out of fiery death' card, but with proper deployment and use, he is not that bad a tank solo or even low-man.

[Lemuria]

Yuna was a Summoner but her main role was a WHM.

No, it really wasn't. Aside from the story, where Aeons had the main focus and she was always referred to as a summoner, Yuna's summons had literally the strongest attacks in the game. Even Wakka's attack reels Overdrive couldn't match Anima's Overdrive. I see healing as her secondary function, rather than the other way around. By the end of the game, you don't care that Yuna can cast cure because everyone can cast cure. You just care that she has Ifrit to take a dive for you to survive that Megaflare or Anima to beat the nasty out of them with dozens of punches totaling millions of damage.

And FFT summoner had nothing else EXCEPT summons. They took a while to cast, but they were big, impressive and deadly. Incidentally, almost every instance of summons in the past has always had the emphasis on flashy cinematics and deadly potency.

As for ripping aggro, again if you actually let Titan build up some hate and do things to support him(putting Sustain on him, casting E4E, and slowing down hate generation on your part), i find it hard to buy that you are consistently pulling hate from him.

Really? You're advocating 'slowing down' DPS? If you have to do that, then he's already failed as a tank. That was my point. Sure, he can tank if you stop doing your job and hold back every once in a while, but then so could the White Mage spamming Stone II in Cleric's Stance.

Titan lacks any abilities to grab aggro from the start (ie, no Provoke) so he can't be used in any kind of emergency. He also lacks the DPS to maintain aggro on anything. So no, he still sucks as a tank. As mentioned, if I can grab aggro as a soloist using Titan then there's something horribly wrong.

[Allyrion]

No, it really wasn't. Aside from the story, where Aeons had the main focus and she was always referred to as a summoner, Yuna's summons had literally the strongest attacks in the game. Even Wakka's attack reels Overdrive couldn't match Anima's Overdrive. I see healing as her secondary function, rather than the other way around. By the end of the game, you don't care that Yuna can cast cure because everyone can cast cure. You just care that she has Ifrit to take a dive for you to survive that Megaflare or Anima to beat the nasty out of them with dozens of punches totaling millions of damage.


And FFT summoner had nothing else EXCEPT summons. They took a while to cast, but they were big, impressive and deadly. Incidentally, almost every instance of summons in the past has always had the emphasis on flashy cinematics and deadly potency.Really? You're advocating 'slowing down' DPS? If you have to do that, then he's already failed as a tank. That was my point. Sure, he can tank if you stop doing your job and hold back every once in a while, but then so could the White Mage spamming Stone II in Cleric's Stance.

Her skill set was a WHM though. She didn't control the pet.
Sure, she gave access to the summons but the character had little to do with afterwards.

And if you want to talk about Sphere hopping. I literally one-shotted all the last bosses by giving Yuna Double-Ultima, so Summons didn't really matter at that point.
As I said, she's called a Summoner yet the character themselves were focused on healing and simply allowed access to the Aeons.
Her skill set was completely unrelated to the act of summoning and was the only WHM in the game, fulfilling a double role.

That's my point. All the main FF Summoners are not only Summoners, and the characters themselves have their own Jobs that really aren't about the Summons.
Other Jobs aren't like this. There are pure THF RDM, DRK, PLD, DRG, BLM, WHM etc. but SMN has not been pure.
That's been the nature of the Job.

If anything, you're right that SMN is usually cinematic.
If SE wanted to make a traditional Summoner, they would take out the pets completely and then you only summon then at like 3 minute cooldowns for a big attack.
Then the rest of the time, you forget you're a summoner for a while and fulfill some other role until the cooldown is back up.
But it's also telling that quite a few games simply allowed all characters to summons.
Because Summons are generally added flavor, but not really a role in itself.

And a SMN even having a pet really goes away from the classic theme of a big flashy move every once in a while. It's trivial when you can have these summons by your side all the time.

FFIXV's version is not a bad compromise though, with the new Bahamut Trance being a better take on combining caster and summons.
And, obviously, being pretty flashy.

[Jasmine_Aurelia]

Honestly I've never had trouble getting titan to hold aggro..but then again I've never really cared to be absolute perfectionist in my dps either, that kind of work doesn't appeal to me.

[Akira_Tenshi]

I think the glamour system they have planned for eggi's is far more exciting. They could potentially add as many skins as they want without having to worry about the balance of the game. You could have a little Diablos following you around. This system could offer far more than simply adding a couple of new pets with new actions.

[TripPsyc]

I think the glamour system they have planned for eggi's is far more exciting. They could potentially add as many skins as they want without having to worry about the balance of the game. You could have a little Diablos following you around. This system could offer far more than simply adding a couple of new pets with new actions.

See I am genuinely on board with this glamour idea provided they give us some options like shiva/ramuh ect.
Personally I would just love to replace garuda with a mini bismark whale or whatnot while still using her similar abilities. Lets hope this comes to fruition.