No new SMNs for SMN?

[Asierid]

Woo

Want to Bane things? Ifrit's got the cleave to help.

Moar DoTs? Garuda is your bro.

OMG GON DIE! Titan saves you.

I can play this game too. Now you're just laying out pet abilities for no reason. We get it, the fairy heals. Aside from Rouse, which SMN gets too BTW (Which has been mentioned numerous times here), SCH has nothing that affects the pet.

[Bigcat9715]

Want to Bane things? Ifrit's got the cleave to help.

Ifrit doesn't "cleave" the only thing Ifrit has is a 3y aoe that bearly hits anyone. Ifrit is mostly a single target pet and Bane is an aoe, so the 2 don't compliment each other.

Moar DoTs? Garuda is your bro.

Moar DoTs? lol do you mean extended DoT timers? Okay I give you this one, but this is 1 out of the 4 examples I gave for player and pet sync.

OMG GON DIE! Titan saves you.

For Solo I can understand Titan, but if you have to summon Titan in a 4 man dungeon or 8 man raids I feel sorry for the tank.

Now you're just laying out pet abilities for no reason.

If your going to have a "Whos better at being a Summoner" argument then Pet abilities come in to play.

Aside from Rouse, which SMN gets too BTW (Which has been mentioned numerous times here), SCH has nothing that affects the pet.

Actually, all of Sch's abilities affect their pets. Sch pet gets a DoT on them Leech it away. Sch pet low on life Adloquium them. Unless Smn is always sustaining (which both Sch and Smn have) their pet after they get hit with a hard hitting poison DoT that pet is going to die. Plus if the Smn is too focus on trying to keep their pet alive, their overall dps will crash and burn.

[SuzakuCMX]

Wait when did this become an argument about SCH vs. SMN and more importantly, who has more abilities that affect their respective summon?

If you're not controlling your summon as a SMN you're doing it wrong. SCH only needs to control Eos realistically to make sure she doesn't blow Whispering Dawn at a bad time, but otherwise you can leave your fairy on sic. You also don't need to cast anything on it in most cases except Sustain because your fairy will heal itself. Selene you leave on sic because she uses her buffs on rotation at the perfect time. In dungeons you don't even have to command Eos because even having them on Obey, they will cast Embrace on anyone below 80% HP and you don't usually need whispering dawn.

SCH fairies augment their healing. SMN egis augment their damage. There isn't much of a difference besides SMN having to more closely control what their egi is doing.

[Bigcat9715]

Whats going on here?

Well you see we're having a argument about which job is better at holding the title of Summoner (abilities that compliment each other between player and pet). It starts 2 pages back you should go back and read. I been enjoying this alot.

[Delily]

Well you see we're having a argument about which job is better at holding the title of Summoner (abilities that compliment each other between player and pet). It starts 2 pages back you should go back and read. I been enjoying this alot.

Actually, both of you are only half right. The issue is more of the fact that a summoner is, and has always been an odd mixture of damage and support. To apply this in light of the game's design of roles, those have to be split, and support always gets more utility than damage does.

[Mugiawara]

Point stands. SCH is no summoner. SCH just so happens to be a healer that has to rely on a fairy (that it has no synergy with, no less) to be decent. I find it strange that the healer is the one that has to sacrifice the pet for a boost instead of the SMN, but whatever works I suppose

I don't understand how you mean by Synergy? Between us and the Pet?

Also SCH techinally IS a summoner, as you use the SUMMONERS soul stone.
>__> Sooo...

[Asierid]

Ifrit doesn't "cleave" the only thing Ifrit has is a 3y aoe that bearly hits anyone. Ifrit is mostly a single target pet and Bane is an aoe, so the 2 don't compliment each other.

Inferno and Flaming Crush. I was using cleave as a broad term for AoE.

The SCH examples are nothing more then pet abilities. This has nothing to do with the SCH buffing or otherwise utilizing the pet based on their own abilities except Rouse (Which SMN gets).

The whole point to this is: SMN has 2 (3 with Rouse) abilities that modify the summon to make it better. Which is the whole point of a summoner as written by the XIV team, to summon primal aether to fight for you and have abilities based around this fact, which they do. SCH has one. One that doesn't even come with the Job, therefore is excluded from this argument. SCH do not buff or otherwise modify Eos/Selene with their own skills.

By the literal definition, and with these abilities, SCH is nowhere near a "Summoner". It is a healing class that happens to have a familiar that does it's own thing. Summoner increases the damage of the summon, along with enabling them to use signature abilities (Which would be why SMN pets have 5 abilities and SCH pets have 4); this is something that SCH cannot access.

I don't understand how you mean by Synergy? Between us and the Pet?

You don't interact with the fairy. She stands there and does stuff to keep you alive, nothing more.

tl;dr: SMN doesn't need an egi. Be happy with what you have, as it is one of the biggest buffs to a DPS role that this game has seen so far.

[Bigcat9715]

Actually, both of you are only half right. The issue is more of the fact that a summoner is, and has always been an odd mixture of damage and support. To apply this in light of the game's design of roles, those have to be split, and support always gets more utility than damage does.

I see what you mean, but Bard is a support class and they destroy most dps classes (if they're good) thats why they have to have QS. The only support abilities that Smn has is Eye for an Eye, virus (nerf into the ground), and Resurrection unless you want to add Tri-bind.

[Bigcat9715]

Inferno and Flaming Crush. I was using cleave as a broad term for AoE.

The whole point to this is: SMN has 2 (3 with Rouse)

Summoner increases the damage of the summon, along with enabling them to use signature abilities (Which would be why SMN pets have 5 abilities and SCH pets have 4); this is something that SCH cannot access.

So wait your adding the most underwhelming Smn ability (tri-bind is up there too) to the argument? Enkindle has a 5 min CD It's not something you just throw out their unless you don't care about it, and it doesn't affect your overall dps. Personally I see it as a Smn limit break because of the CD only. Anyway the argument I was making was about Player & Pet abilities complimenting each other, and how Smn have so little of that. It's not about Smn unlocking their pets 5 min CD ability thats a lore argument not a gameplay argument.

Also besides Rouse (which we agree doesn't count) the only other ability that buff Smn pet is Spur. Unless your talking about Enkindle which doesn't make them better, it just makes your pet do a cool lazer light show, then you have to wait 5 min for the next showing.

[Devtek]

Hey when they tell you a pet class ain't getting new pets.
I am not sure what you'd expect in terms of reactions lol.

If the glamours for the EGI were actually out with Heavensward then that would have actually been something but another "sometime soon(tm)" promise is what knocked me the wrong way. Personally, I'm just tired of looking at the same damn egis, wanted something fresh.