The Rejoining (Spoilers for EVERYTHING up to 2.55, welcome to Lore)

[Anonymoose]

<good, objective analysis>

These points are what I struggle the most with, and you summed it up very well.

In particular I struggle to believe, in spite of some convincing evidence to the contrary, that THE CRYSTAL is any form (even accidentally) of not-the-good-one. It's especially hard for me to grasp since Naoki Yoshida so clearly sees this game, at its heart, to be Good versus Evil, Light versus Darkness. In all other areas of the story, there's gray. In all other ares of the story, you have no idea who you can trust. But (so far) I've interpreted many of the things he's said as that he envisions the game in the more pure and classic sense at its core - that no matter what else is going on, this is about a diverse band of heroes saving the world from a true evil that threatens to destroy it. Remember how stunned he was that someone wanted to "be evil" and joked that Koji now has to "change the lore?"

Is it possible? Oh, hells yeah. From a story-telling perspective it's not worse in any way (it could even be better).

But it feels wrong to me at this point in time. And that's not even to mention the trust the light message at the end of every patch. Isn't it just as likely that the Ascians have had their perception tainted by the Darkness? We've heard this "It's the right thing to do! I follow the one true god!" spiel before, and it's never been accurate. Do we give the Ascians more credit because they know more? Darnus seemed like he knew far more than we did, too, and look how clearly he was seeing things.

I can think of a few very solid theory frameworks, but they're pretty much mutually exclusive in terms of their content. I can't tell for sure who to trust (and that makes this a damn good Final Fantasy story, imho). There are plenty of hints that blind faith in Hydaelyn might be a bad idea, but I'm gonna stand by her for now.

[Fenral]

I just noticed a distinct lack of Final Fantasy IX allusions in this game and was curious if that was because the allusion was just being missed. Heavy bias here, though, as FFIX is my favorite FF game.

Watch through the CT scenes again while keeping Zidane in Esto Gaza (and Bran Bal) in the back of your mind, and something pretty interesting (and tragic) happens. Probably just an accident, but I wonder if any subverted FFIX references in XIV may later prove to not be subversions after all.

This is also a possibility; Dualism was one of the first paths I took after seeing the "Dark Crystal" and believing there was a good chance it was a growing Zodiark (though we never really got any conclusive evidence). I thought of lots of theories as equals, at first, but Dualism started to fall out of favor with me when The World of Darkness and The Void became synonymous.

I wonder, though. It seems just as likely to me that the Allagans were aware of a "world of darkness," but simply decided that the first dark and spooky otherworld they poked their curious heads into was it.

It makes it much harder to see a Dualistic balance, and easier to see a desperate fight for the Crystal's will to not go silent in the sea of oblivion. "Your planet is alone - one star in the void." // "In darkness, the crystal dreams."

And yet Eldibus seems to think we can reconcile our differences. While absolute denial of self for a perceived greater good is, apparently, always and unquestionably the right choice in the XIV-verse, I somehow doubt he wants to convince us to simply roll over and die for the sake of the true world. He thinks we can work together, and possibly even stop the more radical Ascian plots for the sake of a path that greater benefits both sides.

I think this is what we're meant to question - did the Light overstep its bounds? Elidibus filled us with doubt in Patch 2.1... The difference between the origins of the transmigratory ascians and originals is something we need to know more about to understand anything.

Never enough info. Ever.

And of course more posts happened while I was writing this. I think, if this whole thing ends in any way, it will be the mother sacrificing herself for her children, and not the other way around. Personally, I'm sick of everyone around me sacrificing themselves in various irreversible ways for "good," "light," "hope," and so on, if only because it's a very easy virtue to commend when you know you inevitably will never have to do it yourself.

[Anonymoose]

And yet Eldibus seems to think we can reconcile our differences.

I don't mean to mock the idea of trusting Elidibus, but Gaius thought we could reconcile our differences, too. All we had to do was throw away our false gods, wholesale slaughter the beast tribes, and accept Imperial rule.

Elidibus makes an interesting case. He seems sincere. He seems to be actively working against the main set of Ascians. He seems to have some investment in this world still existing. But his partner in this is still Lahabrea. He's still fanatically devoted to Zodiark. He still wants Hydaelyn, who we've been given nothing but his word to doubt, to die. He could be someone we can trust and someone we might see eye to eye with, but if Hydaelyn can be trusted, he might also be the one character who's in every Final Fantasy game with ambiguous loyalties where throwing in with them is arguably worse than just joining the antagonists.

I can't stress enough, though, I'm just throwing out possibilities and talking about theories that might possibly fit. I still haven't really found anything I can fully commit to (and my accuracy with predicting the future ain't all that great on specifics... pretty good on the general, not so much on the specifics).

[Fenral]

I can't stress enough, though, I'm just throwing out possibilities and talking about theories that might possibly fit. I still haven't really found anything I can fully commit to (and my accuracy with predicting the future ain't all that great on specifics... pretty good on the general, not so much on the specifics).

We both are, but that's the fun part. I'll admit to being unsure about my own theories as well, though in retrospect a few of my more flippant statements have, unintentionally, been damn-near prophetic. Which is another fun part.

Loading another round into my theory shotgun and aiming at the target: what if it turns out that we aren't objectively in the right about everything, but still must fight against the Ascians for no other reason than that their "rejoined" world is one in which we simply cannot maintain our current existence? I think we may have a lot more agency as heroes if we can come to terms with the idea that the world we want to fight for is not actually the absolute good we thought it was.

[Duuude007]

Huh.. For the longest time I had considered there being Zodiark, the original mothercrystal, which feasibly existed during the 1st astral era. When the mage wars happened, some sort of cataclysm disturbed the balance of light and dark, creating a rift to another dimension, a dark Eorzea if you will, and consequentially the light half of the mothercrystal (Hyedalin) would evermore inhabit our world, and the dark half beyond the void.

Think FF9's Gaia and Terra, and the antagonist's idea to merge the two.

I don't think the Ascian's agenda is entirely without merit, but the way they are trying to rejoin the two halves is probably going to kill most- if not all- mortals. But perhaps as WoL we can find a better option down the line.

[Nialle]

After re-reading/watching a lot of the past quests lately, I have become suspicious that we (people with the Echo) are, in essence, the 'Asicans' of our Mothercrystal. Or more specifically, some type of 'pre-Ascian' being.
Watching that Sahagin priest pull the body-snatching trick after being 'blessed' by Leviathan with immortality reminded me of what Ascians do. And since the Primals seem to regard Hydaelyn's mark on us as a similar type of 'claim' to what they do themselves... it makes me think there are common powers being used between them all. And if a Primal can give their tempered minions Ascian-like immortality with body-posessing powers, surely Hydaelyn can too?

Those sorts of things and Elidibus' insistence that if only we understood more, we'd realize the truth of things and not be against them, makes me wonder.
It seems more and more likely that Hydaelyn's Echo-bearers are her versions of Zodiark's body-snatching immortals, though for some reason it seems there are no 'old' Echo-souls still around from past Eras, which I find strange.

As of now, I'm theorizing that our characters coming to an understanding of this fact about our natures will clarify some/all of what The Rejoining really is all about.

[Fenral]

Think FF9's Gaia and Terra, and the antagonist's idea to merge the two.

Rather, his plan was to use Gaia as the foundation to rebuild Terra; not merging with it, but overwriting it entirely, additionally creating Zidane and Kuja to serve as catalysts to accelerate the process. We do already have a Zidane expy, but the "purpose" for which he was born is to use the current world (and, by extension, the world he asked us to build for him) to restore the (quite possibly self-destructive) prosperity of the Allagans' old world, not the Ascians'.

[Anonymoose]

Watching that Sahagin priest pull the body-snatching trick after being 'blessed' by Leviathan with immortality reminded me of what Ascians do.

I think your line of logic about immortality is on the right track, with souls being basically very concentrated living aether - and The Echo (in its fully realized form) allowing beings of the Light to transcend and become similar to the immortals of the dark (Ascians). However, I'm pretty confident that Wuur (the Sahagin Elder) mentioned Elidibus as being the source of his immortality.

And I shall be granted the gift and knowledge of eternity, and with the Emissary ssstand equal! Then shall I know no cesssation, no oblivion!

Am I not...immortal? Curse you, Emissary! You promised me...everlasssting... Pshhh...

[Kaiser-Ace]

Huh.. For the longest time I had considered there being Zodiark, the original mothercrystal, which feasibly existed during the 1st astral era. When the mage wars happened, some sort of cataclysm disturbed the balance of light and dark, creating a rift to another dimension, a dark Eorzea if you will, and consequentially the light half of the mothercrystal (Hyedalin) would evermore inhabit our world, and the dark half beyond the void.

Just remember, Astral Era's are always after Umbral Eras. If Zodiark is/was the original planet crystal Then it would have been in the Divine Era. The Age of Man starts with the 1st Umbral Era and the War that caused it. The 1st Astral era came after as the 1st Era of Peace for Mankind.

[Isklexi]

It's especially hard for me to grasp since Naoki Yoshida so clearly sees this game, at its heart, to be Good versus Evil, Light versus Darkness.

They could maintain the goodness of Hydaelyn while still making the morals of Zodiark more ambiguous. They could emulate Dissidia by having Hydaelyn pull something similar to Cosmos. She could intend to sacrifice herself to save the people of this world as well as Zodiark and his Ascians.