Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

[Sapphic]

The horizontal progression is the only that makes skill be meaningful, with vertical it's all about bigger numbers.

The first part is a fallacy, the second applied/s to FFXI as much as vertical progression. A melee having capped haste and double/triple attack for the TP set and AP, relevant stat and WS accuracy/damage boost way outperformed someone who was in the same "level" of gear with suboptimal stats and bonuses on the gear. Just as a healer out performed when stacking the correct bonuses for each gear swap on macros for each ability, A +cure potency capped WHM for curing was able to use lower level cures thus reducing mana consumption massively, an enfeeble stacked RDM was more effective than one that was geared like a melee job.

Your idea of horizontel not having anything to do with the numerical output of the jobs and it being based on "skill" is a complete fabrication.

[Renik]

snip

Resource management, the most iconic skill of the RPG genre, while Vertical is about equipping bigger numbers, unless you're a maxer who cares about minimal changes, which most people is not.

That said, i know a full horizontal system can't work in this game and with this generation of gamers, and hybrid or diagonal model based on choices (illusion or not), upgrades, and new ilvl every 6 months-1 year, of course this requires the addition of not overpowered specialized stats, without these horizontal progression can not exist.

[Sapphic]

Resource management, the most iconic skill of the RPG genre, while Vertical is about equipping bigger numbers, unless you're a maxer who cares about minimal changes, which most people is not.

That said, i know a full horizontal system can't work in this game and with this generation of gamers, and hybrid or diagonal model based on choices (illusion or not), upgrades, and new ilvl every 6 months-1 year, of course this requires the addition of not overpowered specialized stats, without these horizontal progression can not exist.

Optimising with horizontal creates bigger numbers, whether its boosted heals or DPS. Then when you have that set, what do you strive for next? Well the improved "horizontal" gear that comes with the next content update, hence making it Vertical with the illusion of it being horizontal. Just like FFXI, albeit there are items that are a must have, Eponas ring for example for melee from Aby.

[Aeyis]

The first part is a fallacy, the second applied/s to FFXI as much as vertical progression. A melee having capped haste and double/triple attack for the TP set and AP, relevant stat and WS accuracy/damage boost way outperformed someone who was in the same "level" of gear with suboptimal stats and bonuses on the gear. Just as a healer out performed when stacking the correct bonuses for each gear swap on macros for each ability, A +cure potency capped WHM for curing was able to use lower level cures thus reducing mana consumption massively, an enfeeble stacked RDM was more effective than one that was geared like a melee job.

Your idea of horizontel not having anything to do with the numerical output of the jobs and it being based on "skill" is a complete fabrication.

Fallacy, you say? You alter numbers in your example so that one always vastly exceeds the other.

What if haste and double attack had similar damage increase ratios, but they had different effects? (a flashy second attack,different from the normal hit for double attack, and a much higher normal hit ratio for haste).

Now suddenly your example against horizontal progression falls flat on its face.



Even in the case of numbers being apart, as long as the numbers are not apart in a huge way; it does not matter which a player chooses.

EDIT: Also, one thing I don't understand with horizontal progression... How would they even keep making new and interesting gear that people would even want? Maybe I'm missing something, but if everything have the same level, and only different stats and whatnot, why would you even want to change your gear once you get a combination that is better than everything else? And trust me, there would be gear like that.

How would they make new and interesting gear with vertical progression? Its the same item with the same stats, but just bigger numbers.

^Its not a problem of the gear system, but gearing itself. Altho horizontal would actually make it easier; since you can provide more options at the same ''ilvl''.

[Ultimatecalibur]

How would they make new and interesting gear with vertical progression? Its the same item with the same stats, but just bigger numbers.

^Its not a problem of the gear system, but gearing itself. Altho horizontal would actually make it easier; since you can provide more options at the same ''ilvl''.

Vertical progression makes new gear desirable* by having it be better in most cases that previous gear and also having different models. Horizontal progression has a tendency of making only a few pieces desirable until better pieces appear.

*Not interesting. Interesting is a bad term. Anything can be interesting if it is different than normal. A left side tank piece with +Mind +Spellspeed would be interesting, but not desirable.