Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

[Allyrion]

For me, I feel like the people who want vertical progression are materialistic and the people who want horizontal progression are hoarders.

I probably just insulted everyone saying that, but I don't really like either.
I like stuff like the Relic where you get one piece. It can be upgraded and customized.
I don't think that system has to have as much RNG grind as the relic does, and it could be tied into drops from raids to enhance.

I don't want a bunch of crap in my bags for situation gearing and limited sense of progression.
I don't want gear to be completely disposable every patch cycle either.

I guess I'll favor the 'standard' vertical progression as it is.
I think we could use some more interesting stats though.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Congratulations on successfully ignoring the greater majority of the games you played then.
MMOs are about loot. Even the much vaunted FFXI. Hell, moreso there. No one did NMs because the fights were fun. They did them because of that 1% chance to drop something they needed to finish out a set.

So you're happy to get 1 set and never upgrade again? Congrats, theres games out there just for you. Why don't you go play them if you hate XIVs gear so much?

PS, Error processing your request: Examples cannot be given because your hypothetical sets and bonuses do not exist, thus a very general example was given.

Thank you for going through exactly what I explained, it really makes me feel like you can read my posts.

Now, "Successfully Ignoring?" I basicly got the best of "My Playstyle" in every slot because most horizontal progression games I have played are Horizontal+Vertical Progression, however just because something had more stats did not immediately make it a better piece of gear, especially since I liked to use certain items over others because they were more geared towards "My" play-style. Since I knew my play style well I played a lot better then people with better gear sets then me per encounter, because I knew the weaknesses and strengths of my own style of play and gear.

No, It makes everything worse.
Since now you have to have a specific set for specific encounters because certain bonuses make those encounters easier.

And since those examples don't exist - your argument before is completely invalid. Thank you for whining about it for no reason then. =)

Except that in your example the gear is NOT relevant forever, as you would be going into newer, harder content to raise the item levels. Which is what we do right now .. But without set bonuses to anchor us to old gear.
In such a world gear would be even more bland than it is now, because everyone would have one set, and one set only that just got a number buff every other patch.

"What is this one set?"

AGAIN, your talking out of your rear. NOT GIVING EXAMPLES.

Error 404, examples not given. Invalid Argument! =D See how it feels?

In Everquest II, there were some cool items that have been good for multiple expansions just because of how fun the items were, the guys still didn't want to give it up for new gear because of how fun it made them play.

[Sylve]

Lots of words

1} Yes, ignoring. You deliberately chose to ignore every other piece of gear in favor of your chosen set, in your own words, for the entire life of the game.

2}I gave an example based on your hypothetical horizontal progression involving bonuses on gear that were not stats. You have yet to give any kind examples other than to laud what other games have supposedly done.

3} That statement wasn't even directed at you, hence why you aren't quoted.

[tymora]

If they put in elemental, weapon resistances again, horizontal will be viable. But we players are apparently too dumb to handle that.

[SDaemon]

If they put in elemental, weapon resistances again, horizontal will be viable. But we players are apparently too dumb to handle that.

I'd rather not have to farm sets of resist gear of every element/weapon just to be viable. Especially having to do it each time a new tier of content came out. (Unless those same element/weapon resist gear sets were relevant forever, in which case we would be left with utter stagnation of character growth.)

[kyuven]

Biggest argument against horizontal:
We have limited inventory. Even with one set of armor per class, we will have precisely ONE extra slot in our armoury for extra gear.
"Horizontal" means you have choices that are more than the 4 we have now (which are Dreadwyrm, Crafted, Ironworks, and Demon. All of which have at least 1 piece that's considered best in slot for nearly every class)
XI didn't exactly have the same issue ideally, as leveling a job and gearing it fully was a process that took months and months of time, to the point they had to add extra storage NPCs that would make our armoire system blush. 160 inventory spaces was barely enough for a SINGLE job.
The current producers took one look at this mindbogglingly absurd level of item management and said "No...not anymore" and gave us the current system.
Here's the thing: If it requires you to use your inventory or retainers to store equipment sets (glamour is not included, they're a special case) because you ran out of room in your armoury, then that's bad design.
Unless they upgrade the armoury to have more slots (a TON more slots, we're talking 50 or more per equipment piece) then horizontal progression is not viable.

I'd rather not have to farm sets of resist gear of every element/weapon just to be viable. Especially having to do it each time a new tier of content came out. (Unless those same element/weapon resist gear sets were relevant forever, in which case we would be left with utter stagnation of character growth.)

The same applies to other areas as well.
I already spend hours and hour farming Coil to get the drops I need to be "BiS." Having to do that to have different situational pieces of gear for every encounter would be ludicrous.
Imagine needing different gear sets for each Turn in coil. You would need twelve armor sets per class. We do not have that kind of space, and this is not that type of game.

[Destomius]

Vertical by far.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Having different "Resistances" and such is a rather dumb concept. That isn't Horizontal Progression though, that is still vertical. You just need to upgrade each tier of resistances, there is no choice, thus not horizontal. Horizontal gear means you have a choice to pick between to fight such bosses with.

[SDaemon]

Horizontal gear means you have a choice to pick between to fight such bosses with.

It would still be a royal pain/impracticality having to farm/carry different sets of gear to accommodate Boss A vs Boss B vs Boss C.

BOOM win-win.... everyone's happy. Casuals never have to upgrade their gear and raiders can continue to grow their characters. Problem Solved.... Your welcome

What issue exactly does this solve?

Your statement essentially breaks-down to "only raiders should have character growth, casuals be damned."

[Nektulos-Tuor]

It would still be a royal pain/impracticality having to farm/carry different sets of gear to accommodate Boss A vs Boss B vs Boss C.



What issue exactly does this solve?

Your statement essentially breaks-down to "only raiders should have character growth, casuals be damned."

No.. That is an entirely different thing. If you need different sets for "EACH" encounter then that ISN'T A CHOICE. That isn't horizontal progression. You should want to slot yourself with YOUR style of play. That is horizontal progression.

Gear designed that way, is horrible.

Gear Designed for Example like this:

20 Vitality
10 Parry
10 Block Chance

vs

20 Vitality
10 Strength
10 Critical Rate

THAT is a choice. You don't need multiple sets of that, because you can do it both ways. One increases defense more whilst the other increases offensive a bit more.

Or

% Chance on damage taken to deal X damage to target.

vs

% Chance on damage taken to heal yourself for X.

vs

% chance attacking to deal additional damage

vs

% chance attacking to heal yourself

vs

% chance attacking to heal yourself, and deal damage (less from both.)

Another choice. There can be hundreds of ways to make it the same but different choices. There should be no "BEST" choice. There should be "What do you think you can do?"

Materia Upgrades though is a very bad idea though, ew. Less they are very powerful like runes.