No new SMNs for SMN?

[MiniPrinny]

As someone who has been playing MMOs for over a decade and Final Fantasy games for almost two decades, I am... conflicted on the vast opinion of Summoners. I'll tackle the Final Fantasy part first.

Summoners do damage. They've always dealt damage. Usually insane damage at the cost of consuming more MP. This would never work in an MMORPG. At the core, Summoners are spell casters who call upon creatures from another realm to fight either alongside them or for them, this is the core feature of the job. They never really have ever had a set skill set outside of "Summon Shiva, Ifrit, Ramuh, Bahamut." And even those four summons have taken turns not appearing in games. Here, Summoners have "Summon Garuda, Titan, and Ifrit" and are gaining the ability to take up the power of Bahamut. None of this goes against what Summoners have done in the past. I think where the confusion is coming in, is that Summoners in FFXIV aren't the Summoners we saw in FFIII and the games between FFIV and FFIX. They aren't completely reliant on their pets. And despite the idea of Summoner doing nothing but Summoning, more often they are Black or White Mages who can Summon. Rydia, one of the most famous offensive Summoners is a Black Mage who also can Summon. In fact, she is better as a Black Mage. Even in the oft-referenced Final Fantasy XI, Summoners weren't purely Summons. They often had sub-jobs that allowed them to heal, buff, or do damage alongside their pet. So the concept of a Summoner who uses magic to fight with their pet is far from a foreign concept in the series.

As for their abilities in terms of MMORPGs, Summoners fill a niche that I don't see any other mage in the series being able to except a vastly different Black Mage. Summoners, while never being know for poison and shadow magic until now, happens to have the best basis for a DoT mage. And this sort of play-style isn't that rare nor is it unpopular, and it often benefits the player-base to have this role instead of just "more damage style A" and "more damage style B" for their mage choices. As for the setting itself, it is also justified that Summoners do more than Summon. Final Fantasy XIV's world would not tolerate the summoning of Primals in their full form to fight with the Summoner, nor would a lone Summoner be able to preform this feat. Scaling down the summons to a reasonable size as well as giving the Summoner something to do outside of managing their pet is a masterstroke in world design. Summoners here, like in many games, are mages who learn how to summon, and they use their basic magic to assist them. It's why you don't start with Summon I, you start with Ruin. A basic black magic spell. And as you level up, you learn two other styles of summons, but the magic you draw from is vastly different than that of a Black Mage. This leaves you being a sustained damage dealer, and often the more powerful against singular targets and gives Summoner a defined role at long last, rather than just "Black Mage, but with magical creatures." In the end, what would you want? A poison and shadow magic wielding tamer of Primals or a poor knock-off of the original? I know what I'd choose.

[TruebladeNuke]

Final Fantasy XIV's world would not tolerate the summoning of Primals in their full form to fight with the Summoner, nor would a lone Summoner be able to preform this feat.

This is the part most people seem to be forgetting about in their constant complaints about how SMNs work in this game. The lore of FFXIV dictates that summoning a full primal would effectively be an act of treason and what not. And lets not forget that besides Ramuh, all the primals in this game actively hate you and want you dead.

But nope. Lore be damned to those people. Props to you on that post, I know what I'd pick too.

[Lemuria]

This is the part most people seem to be forgetting about in their constant complaints about how SMNs work in this game. The lore of FFXIV dictates...

Just thought that I'd point out that lore is a terrible reason why the mechanics of a job should suck. The funniest part about Summoner is that if they robbed us of our avatars we'd notice virtually no difference with regards to how the class plays. With the exception of Contagion, there's not a single pet skill which requires any kind of forward planning to use.

Maybe they should just get rid of the Egi's entirely and rename the class to Ravager or something.

[TruebladeNuke]

Just thought that I'd point out that lore is a terrible reason why the mechanics of a job should suck. The funniest part about Summoner is that if they robbed us of our avatars we'd notice virtually no difference with regards to how the class plays. With the exception of Contagion, there's not a single pet skill which requires any kind of forward planning to use.

I never implied anything about mechanics in there. Otherwise, I would have talked about how the Egis are likely being meshed out for Heavensward. Also, your pet is a notable factor to your damage output. Anyone who's played SMN long enough in this game can tell you their overall DPS output drops when they don't have a pet out. Just not by as large of a margin as people keep thinking it should be.

[Lemuria]

Also, your pet is a notable factor to your damage output. Anyone who's played SMN long enough in this game can tell you their overall DPS output drops when they don't have a pet out. Just not by as large of a margin as people keep thinking it should be.

I specifically said it wouldn't change how the job plays. Heck, boost our existing skills by 30% (equal to how much those pets deal) and you've already made up most of the difference. The rest is down to Rouse and Spur, which could just as easily be replaced by any generic damage boost.

The only thing that would really hurt it from losing the summons is the fact its fate is tied directly to Scholar. The summons themselves are woefully uninteresting considering they're supposed to be the focus.

[Nestama]

This is the part most people seem to be forgetting about in their constant complaints about how SMNs work in this game. The lore of FFXIV dictates that summoning a full primal would effectively be an act of treason and what not. And lets not forget that besides Ramuh, all the primals in this game actively hate you and want you dead.

But nope. Lore be damned to those people. Props to you on that post, I know what I'd pick too.

Going to add: if SMN's could summon a full sized Primal, no one would ever want them to join their Coil parties. Not being able to see who has Divebomb markers, T10 charge markers/tether or T11 tethers would cause way too many issues. SMN's would either be forced to use their range pet (therefore lowing their DPS a little), or be out right excluded from difficult fights.

The lore is one reason, but we all know that a full sized Primal (even just Behemoth mount sized) would only cause issues.

[Kaethra]

Going to add: if SMN's could summon a full sized Primal, no one would ever want them to join their Coil parties. Not being able to see who has Divebomb markers, T10 charge markers/tether or T11 tethers would cause way too many issues. SMN's would either be forced to use their range pet (therefore lowing their DPS a little), or be out right excluded from difficult fights.

The lore is one reason, but we all know that a full sized Primal (even just Behemoth mount sized) would only cause issues.

Ehh there is a way around that. The same EQ did it with their oversized pets: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=3583

From what I remember, it could be used twice to get the pet down to 25% size. Basically turning an oversized primal into the Egi size it is now. Let them look crazy big while soloing, and then when in groups, they get toned down.