The Ultimate Black Mage Resources with Damage Calculator

[Sleigh]

If it is "Reduce Cast Times" VS "Increase Spell Speed" then it will have no difference.

Although I'm certainly curious about how Sharp Cast will work with Thunder. Whether it's a guaranteed proc per tick for the duration of Thunder and whether it would be overwritten by casting the proc, as usually "weaker" spells don't overwrite stronger ones.

I believe attack DoTs are exempt from this rule, ever since an early patch (2.1?). I know at launch it was a problem with Raging Strikes DoTs on SMNs, but aside from something like weaker Adlo/Succor/SS not overwriting I believe this doesn't apply anymore.

About using Thundercloud on single target, or more specifically, Sharpcast Thunder, it depends. Let's assume the SS buff to DoTs won't buff Thunder 3 Thundercloud to a level that beats Firestarter (since that makes the discussion moot). Thunderclouds are very strong in the current rotation because rotations can be longer than Thunder durations significantly, and because we're always looking for free Firestarter checks out there. In 3.0, free Firestarter checks are guaranteed when we do use F1, so that advantage is gone, and our rotations are going to be a bit more of a fixed time line compared to the relatively random nature we have now. Let's assume no Leyline, let's say 10% SS reduction on skills by default.

T2 gets cast: 0
B4: 2.7s
F3: 4.95s
F4: 7.65s
F4: 10.35s
F1: 12.6s
(Firestarter may or may not happen here)
F4: 15.3s
F4: 18s
B3: 20.25s
T2: 22.95s

If no Firestarter, that's perfect. Firestarter happens and you'd lose one tick of Thunder ticking and Thundercloud would have been better.

HOWEVER, assume Selene, Leylines, and/or closer to 15% off cast times from base Spell Speed and that tick is pretty unlikely. Here's a Leylines example, using the numbers from the video:

F1 1.94, F4 2.35

T2: 0
B4: 2.35
F3: 4.29
F4: 6.64
F4: 8.99
F1: 10.93
F4: 13.28
(Firestarter possible)
F4: 15.63
B3: 17.57
T2: 19.92

In this case we need a Firestarter to guarantee the T2 ticks fully! And it would only get quicker in a high SS build, probably.

tl;dr

Ways Thundercloud would be worth the Sharpcast over Firestarter:

- Attacking a new enemy where it's instantly stronger than Firestarter
- If you're gaining at least one tick you would have lost dropped on the enemy, the potency is instantly worth 400 + 35 which is stronger than F3. If your rotation is longer than 21s from T2 to T2. If T1 is used instead of T2, Thundercloud is actually almost guaranteed to do about the same potency as Firestarter since you gain a tick or two.
- If SS buffs Thunder total damage by about 10% or more.

Ways Firestarter would stay stronger than Thundercloud:

- If your rotation is faster than that 23s base due to Leyline, Selene, and/or insanely high SS. This is actually almost mandatory one of the rotations because you would drop Enochian if you don't enter UI3 and do B4 within 20s. I could see there being SS breakpoints in the future based on ensuring a full rotation within this 20s, since it's clearly do-able.
- Using Sharpcast on the first F1 in a rotation to prepare for mechanics and be available for keeping your AH3 without dropping F4s. This would be the major reason to use Sharpcast on F1 IMO, keeping your rotation pure. Thundercloud is all well and good as a movement proc, 12s is dandy, but if you would have to negatively alter your rotation when you could otherwise keep it kicking you should keep the Firestarter handy instead of forcing a F1 later in the rotation.

[alphamax112]

There are some points that came to my mind :
1. If we cast B4 with AF3 buff, will the AF3 buff disappear?
2. If we cast B4 with AF3 buff, will the cast time of that B4 shortened?
3. Casting B4 with UI3 buff when Enochian duration is still more than 5s will replace current duration with (current duration - 5)s new duration

We should use B4 in AF3 or UI3 accordingly to maximize our dps, I think

[OneWingedSora]

I thought you couldn't cast B4 unless you were in UI3.

[Dextro]

I thought you couldn't cast B4 unless you were in UI3.

Partly correct, you only have to be in UI.
The showcase demo had the BLM use Fire IV > Transpose > Swiftcast > Blizzard IV - which could also be another niche option.

[Garotte14]

Partly correct, you only have to be in UI.
The showcase demo had the BLM use Fire IV > Transpose > Swiftcast > Blizzard IV - which could also be another niche option.

That might have been how it was presented in the video but I can't see that actually being how we would normally operate. You'll want to be in UI III to recover full MP. If you transpose and then cast Blizz IV, you'll have to then cast Blizz III after which will end up being the longer cast duration. Just my thoughts.

[melflomil]

Yah i dont think it matters if you have 1,2 or 3 stack. just as long you are in the right form you can cast the respective moves.
I'm not sure if umbral ice acts like astral fire for each stack you get damage increase

[Starkbeaumont]

Although I'm certainly curious about how Sharp Cast will work with Thunder. Whether it's a guaranteed proc per tick for the duration of Thunder and whether it would be overwritten by casting the proc, as usually "weaker" spells don't overwrite stronger ones.

well they do, unbuff dots from smn overwrite buffed ones as well. was changed in 2.1 or around that time. though the T3 proc would probably overwrite the old one.
but in a scenario where you have more than one target, focusing on one while other has the sharpcasted thunder on it... well happy thunder triggering every 3s!

[Sleigh]

B4 will be decent filler for post-Flare shenanigans. Flare > Transpose > B4 > F3 and you're good to go with a 1 stack MP tick and a 2 stack MP tick, though you might have to slightly delay the F3 during Selene/Leylines.

Yah i dont think it matters if you have 1,2 or 3 stack. just as long you are in the right form you can cast the respective moves.
I'm not sure if umbral ice acts like astral fire for each stack you get damage increase

UI has no effect on ice damage. The only thing that UI has an effect on is it reduces fire damage dealt and MP cost, much like AH reduces ice damage and MP cost.

[Dextro]

That might have been how it was presented in the video but I can't see that actually being how we would normally operate. You'll want to be in UI III to recover full MP. If you transpose and then cast Blizz IV, you'll have to then cast Blizz III after which will end up being the longer cast duration. Just my thoughts.

I didn't think I'd have to elaborate on it, but the Swiftcast > Blizzard IV was what I meant could be the situational option.
Like when transposed following a primal jump with 3secs on the Enochian clock, or something. Not a F4 > Transpose > B4 rotation...that would be awful.

[Garotte14]

I didn't think I'd have to elaborate on it, but the Swiftcast > Blizzard IV was what I meant could be the situational option.
Like when transposed following a primal jump with 3secs on the Enochian clock, or something. Not a F4 > Transpose > B4 rotation...that would be awful.

Well that makes sense. Sorry, I didn't get that from your first post