o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Amineri]

Then I go back to my original statement that you needed to be more vocal. Some people out there beat you or your friends who this seems to hurt the most and spoke louder in the forums then all. I want someone to explain how simplifiyng the crafting system.....no I retract that... STREAMLINING the crafting system is dumbing it down? If you had to go out in the field for battle and you had to do this:

You asked for an example of how streamlining the system "dumbs it down". To be fair, the quoted phrase is not one that I would have chosen, but anyhow.

I give here a detailed example, compiled all from memory (only meaning to demonstrated that I very much love this aspect of the game).

Velveteen Robes

Velveteen Robe consists of the following parts:
Velveteen robe front
Velveteen robe back
Velveteen sleeves
Silver breastpin
Buffalo Leather Shoulderguards
Buffalo Leather Strap
Cotton Yarn

The robe front is made from 3 pieces of velveteen, and one piece of cotton. Why a piece of cotton? It represents the undertime portion of the robe (the part below the hem), and the portion that is visible in the front, underneath the slightly parted opening. For a black robe, which cotton cloth is used, but other colors use different colors.

The robe is made from 4 pieces of velveteen, as there is no special feature on the back of the robe.

The sleeves are made from 2 pieces of velveteen, making up the bulk of the sleeves (other decoration is added later in the assembly step).

The silver breastpin can clearly be seen on the front of the chest of the final product. Cotton robes did not have chest ornaments. Chest ornaments were added starting with brass ornaments on canvas robes.

Buffalo shoulderguards are clearly seen on the finish product.

Buffalo leather strap is used to make the leather lacing on the top of each of the sleeves.

Cotton yarn is used to complete the final assembly.

In the end, every part or material used is actually reflected in the final item. In addition, every feature of the item is reflected by the inclusion of a part of material in the recipe. In this way you could look at an item in-game and get a sense of what the recipe would be.

As an example of THAT, the vintage robe. I'm not quite sure what shade the outer linen portion is, I'd guess deepsea-blue. The underrobe is a vivid shade of red, which is almost assuredly velveteen red. The chest ornament has been upgraded to a gold ornament instead of silver. Further, the shoulderguards and leather lacings on the arms match up with toad leather. Finally, there was the addition of another ornament, the leather cuffs on the sleeves that the end, which leather matches up with the leather on the shoulders.

This system pretty much tosses that out.
I foresee:
Velveteen Robe
1 velveteen cloth
1 buffalo leather
1 silver ingot
1 cotton yarn

In my eyes, this makes the system less deep and enjoyable. I guess I should be used to that, though. I enjoy mathematics in-and-of-itself, and 99% of the population despises that as well. With the new mass tyranny seeming to take place in video games, I shall not find myself a home, and I'm sure you'll be just as happy with me not being there.

[Esk]

Then I go back to my original statement that you needed to be more vocal. Some people out there beat you or your friends who this seems to hurt the most and spoke louder in the forums then all. I want someone to explain how simplifiyng the crafting system.....no I retract that... STREAMLINING the crafting system is dumbing it down? If you had to go out in the field for battle and you had to do this:

1 choose weapon
2 choose hand to use with weapon
3 grab weapon
4 remove weapon from sheath
5 prepare weapon for striking

If THOSE were the steps needed for you to attack a foe and I mean actually prompted for this JUST like the old craft system use to be, would you consider it dumbing it down if they turned around and made it as it is now?

As for you asking me about the classes, ummm in XI you HAD to go back to town to change your classes LOLOL. And yes, it sucked. But, I played it for 3 years and to this DAY, love that game. So sorry, no bites on that one.

OK The title Probably was the best choice I'll grant you that, but i had just had 2 people ranting about it on coms in my ear and I happened to agree.

And I never had a reason to be vocal until now, as i said, if they had put the details out sooner, I'm sure people would have been more vocal sooner.
I rarely bother with speculation threads, as I cant read Japanese easily and most of the slightly more adult discussion happen in those forums.
But I always try to post when we have anything detailed to post on.

Class changing was just an example , it wouldn't bother me either, I play eve :P this game is simple lol, but I'm sure you can Imagen the non FFXIV players outcry a changes of that type.
(an the other one was more what i figured was in line with this.)

Combat, yes I agree its far to easy, and need to be made much more challenging.
So no argument at all really in that. But what your saying isn't the same really.
The actions are just compacted in the combat system.
IMO a more accurate change in combat to the new crafting system would be removing WS options we have during combat
Enter combat >> attack mob (only options being attack/defend/WS) >> end combat.

Streamlining crafting isnt removing a massive section of the crafting.
Its making the whole process simpler and more fun to do in general.

Ok another thing ive not gone into before in this thread.
The crafting interface is bad, if people just selected a recipe from a book that would make it a huge amount simpler (a tree diagram in the book to make all the components and final item?)

[Picoman]

You know, the reasoning behind having a difference in rank within one synth was for individual players to seek out the community and work together to have player interaction.

This concept along with the Repair System, Market Wards, Grouping and others have all suffered due to the reluctance of the community to come together.

[Kiote]

You know, the reasoning behind having a difference in rank within one synth was for individual players to seek out the community and work together to have player interaction.

This concept along with the Repair System, Market Wards, Grouping and others have all suffered due to the reluctance of the community to come together.

That's a whole other problem which I personally place the blame solely on the Horrible Party Seek/Search System. People come together a lot more easily when they can find one another. And the best way to make friends is in a grind party not shouting in town for a LS.

[Kalamia]

I definitely see where both sides are coming with this. For those who enjoyed crafting over everything else, I'm sure having to make parts in order to make the whole was a refreshing dose of realism, and allowed more opportunities for crafting. However for those who crafted casually (which I believe is the larger majority, I may be wrong), maybe in order to repair their equipment or to be able to say they made their own, having to go through so many steps was frustrating, especially if you were only doing one or two crafts. I.e. the canvas gown I just made required weaving, leather, goldsmith, and if I recall correctly both armorer and blacksmith (maybe it was just one or the other), some of the materials needing a higher skill in the other craft than weaving was needed for the gown itself.

It could easily be said this was overkill--I personally would have been overjoyed to see just that the dying was easier and "cross-craft" materials would be lower level (i.e. the canvas outer gown part would need a sheep or buffalo leather strap instead of wolf leather strap). But you can never please everyone, and I think that this update will keep the majority of players happy.

And yes I definitely agree that to completely assess all this, we'll have to see how the materia system goes.

[Fireborn]

You know, the reasoning behind having a difference in rank within one synth was for individual players to seek out the community and work together to have player interaction.

This concept along with the Repair System, Market Wards, Grouping and others have all suffered due to the reluctance of the community to come together.

Indeed... it's something I was thinking as I read this thread about people having difficulty finding things...

Don't you people have friends? Don't you have a linkshell? Even back at launch I could bug the other people to make something for me pretty easily. Doubly so if I had the raw bits on hand. I always readily offered to make stuff for free for people lower than me in my shell... Although, they often blew well past my ability to make things.

The game's still broken on at a level... and they seem to be working on that... but they also seem to be gutting everything that differentiates XIV from XI as if that's the problem. That new recipe downright mirrors the XI style of throwing stuff into a crystal and seeing what pops out.

[Amineri]

You know, the reasoning behind having a difference in rank within one synth was for individual players to seek out the community and work together to have player interaction.

This concept along with the Repair System, Market Wards, Grouping and others have all suffered due to the reluctance of the community to come together.

In part the Market Wards suffer because they aren't designed to do their job well. Why is the 'seek item' feature still so dysfunctional? With that at least a person that wanted a certain type of gear could request within the market system. There is no mechanism in place to allow this.

Regarding hard to find parts. SE recently put up a "task board" for each of the guilds. Currently these are pretty under-utilized, only offering r1 and r10 tasks. Why not create a system to place an order with the guild for a part that you need? And then the guild posts up the notice on the task board, where crafters within that guild could find the order and make it. For example, as a weaver making a robe, I need leather shoulderguards and a metal breastpin. I place orders for those items with the tanners and goldsmith guilds, and they pop up on the task board.

It seems like there were so many positive directions that SE could have gone with this system, but instead it's "back to basics".

[Snuf]

I'm probably one of the worst people to ask about these changes, because I actually hate the crafting system as it is now. I can very much appreciate the inclusion of many parts into the final piece and how crafting a piece of armour may require skills in leatherworking and weaving as well.

But this makes things unnecessarily complex for those of us who just want to level one craft and have an easy time crafting the gear we want and not paying through the nose in terms of gil in the market wards. So, personally, I see this as a great change to make the crafting system much more friendly.

[Okiura]

Hi All,

thought i'd add my 2 cents.

The Crafting system in FF IXV i feel is one of the things they got almost perfect from the beta (not including recpies) and now they want to dumb it down, trying to make WoW XIV me thinks .

as for the recipes the mats needed can be overkill but atleast it's realalistic ^^, i agree with them adjusting the levels of some mats, i.e. using some lumber/planks in a recipe that is lot lower lvl then the one needed to make logs in to lumber/planks, i think fixing that will make alot better, also reduce the need to dumb it down.

atm i look at the synth system and think how good the game will be once they get it all working as well. once they dumb it down i'm not gonna look at the game the same. i truely beleive this is a big hit for ffxiv and if synth is one of the more complex system how much will they have to dumb the rest of the game down to fall in line with it.

Okiura,

[Geesus]

You asked for an example of how streamlining the system "dumbs it down". To be fair, the quoted phrase is not one that I would have chosen, but anyhow.

I give here a detailed example, compiled all from memory (only meaning to demonstrated that I very much love this aspect of the game).

Velveteen Robes

Velveteen Robe consists of the following parts:
Velveteen robe front
Velveteen robe back
Velveteen sleeves
Silver breastpin
Buffalo Leather Shoulderguards
Buffalo Leather Strap
Cotton Yarn

Ok, I removed the other stuff just because while detailed and informative, I didn't want to flood your section and mine as then next War and Peace. lol So, I understnad the realism behind what needed to be done in order to create that item and SOOO many more in the game and thought it WAS cool. The problem with that system is what so many others have explained, the need for a Rank to create one of those pieces may have been to high when compared to the piece itself OR the other jobs included in making the piece. THAT makes no sense. If it's a Rank 30 crafting (Wvr) piece ( I don't really know just giving an example) then the rest of the sub jobs should be that same rank. Otherwise it's NOT really a Rnk 30 piece because you need R46 Bsm in order to make something on it. Therefore it should be R46 as that is the next highest and needed Rank to make the whole damn thing work. Because without your Bsm being close to 46, you can't complete it so why tease someone and get them excited to finally make that epic piece only to be slapped and HA HAAAA thrown in your face? Does that make sense?