The Other Side of The (Raid) Force

[Kathryn]

*Snip*

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

[VarinaVashai]

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

We all have the same right to see the content, and its gated behind challenge. Story involved or not, if you choose that the content is out of your reach it still doesnt prevent you from trying to unlock the story. I myself have not completed coil, i do want to see it. But paying a subscription is not reason enough as to why i should be allowed to, i need to get there with a party of likeminded individuals that want to push beyond the challenge and unlock the reward.

And in regards to creating challenging content with only loot as the reward is shallow worthless content. In my opinion atleast.

[Kathryn]

And in regards to creating challenging content with only loot as the reward is shallow worthless content. In my opinion atleast.

Which is what you'll find 99% of raiders care about is the looting and looking their best, and again it's an issue from ARR that's being resolved in Heavensward, The Raider's will get their shiny loot from Savage and people who want to see the story progression will get to see it.

[VarinaVashai]

Which is what you'll find 99% of raiders care about is the looting and looking their best, and again it's an issue from ARR that's being resolved in Heavensward, The Raider's will get their shiny loot from Savage and people who want to see the story progression will get to see it.

While i am unable to verify or challenge your claim of 99%, i would certainly hope that there are more then 1% of the community that appreciate the rewards of achivment alongside your friends more then the loot. Or breezing trough storymode. Atleast there was more appreciation for adventure with your companions in the older mmos, and what little spirit remains in the modern mmo model. I sure hope they wont crush it all, for the sake of imagined convenience and entitelment.

[Kathryn]

While i am unable to verify or challenge your claim of 99%, i would certainly hope that there are more then 1% of the community that appreciate the rewards of achivment alongside your friends more then the loot. Or breezing trough storymode. Atleast there was more appreciation for adventure with your companions in the older mmos, and what little spirit remains in the modern mmo model. I sure hope they wont crush it all, for the sake of imagined convenience and entitelment.

To be honest with most hardcore progression raiders it's all about trying to be the first to beat content and put it on farm you'll find alot of those raiders will infact skip story because it disrupts the levelling so they can get to the next level of raiding content asap, it's becoming all too common and the norm in modern mmo's & I have played mmo's with my husband for over 15 years.

[VarinaVashai]

To be honest with most hardcore progression raiders it's all about trying to be the first to beat content and put it on farm you'll find alot of those raiders will infact skip story because it disrupts the levelling so they can get to the next level of raiding content asap, it's becoming all too common and the norm in modern mmo's & I have played mmo's with my husband for over 15 years.

You're speaking about a very specific type of player, and myself. I have played mmos for over 15 years aswell. And to claim something as a norm just describes the importance of maintaining some of the older values. And in different games doing content, ive been part of groups that has cleared server first and what not of imagined importance. In the end all we did was enjoy the content challenge ourselves and got our reward for not giving up. And that reward is just as good regardless of being the first to complete something or the last.

But if some people want too skip story and just focus on gear and progression, that is up to them. Others will still value the commitment off challenging yourself to clear the content for the sake of the story. And achivment with your friends.

I dont know what you value, and i wont presume to know. But i hope its not easy content for the sake of it being easy. And you want to see it all just because you pay a subscription. That would make for a very shallow boring game in the long run.

[Kallera]

While i am unable to verify or challenge your claim of 99%, i would certainly hope that there are more then 1% of the community that appreciate the rewards of achivment alongside your friends more then the loot. Or breezing trough storymode. Atleast there was more appreciation for adventure with your companions in the older mmos, and what little spirit remains in the modern mmo model. I sure hope they wont crush it all, for the sake of imagined convenience and entitelment.

Not everyone has skilled friends willing to share the same obsessions for outdated content. It doesn't hurt me in any way that t5 got nerfed, or Pharos Sirius scaled down. Telling people to buckle down and not quit, or should buy their win doesn't help near as much as people think, especially if there is a lot more time spent waiting than wiping. They might indeed succeed, but the experience(and the player that comes out of it isn't always a positive one.

[VarinaVashai]

Not everyone has skilled friends willing to share the same obsessions for outdated content. It doesn't hurt me in any way that t5 got nerfed, or Pharos Sirius scaled down. Telling people to buckle down and not quit, or should buy their win doesn't help near as much as people think. They might indeed succeed, but the experience(and the player that comes out of it isn't always a positive one.

Well i would never encourage anyone to buy runs, and skilled friends or not. Just in case you didnt read my previous posts, i havent completed all of coil or all of the ex-modes. But i wouldnt want to see them open the gates of convenience just so i can see the story. That wouldnt be me challenging myself to improve, that would be surrendering to entitelment and convenience.

Making everything free access without effort, diminishes the value of said content. And there needs to be different types of content for many different kinds of players, and that means that the ones that want to see everything cannot be accomodated. It is a game, games are entertainment for many, challenge for others, challenging mechanics aswell as challenging yourself, your commitment and resolve.

And too have something out off reach, gives you something to reach for and work towards. A personal goal if you like, or not its up to you what you want to attempt to do in a game.

[RiceisNice]

..

The Challenge in this regard is misplaced at best, similar to SoF. You need to find 7 other people who wants to do content that is either old or they otherwise have no incentive to do, especially at this point of the game (where BCoB is more than a year old and T5 remains one of those fights where one person can wipe the party due to mispositioning.) I'm not sure how it is on other servers, but PF for T5 and T9 are absolutely dead unless it's a sale run or someone is looking to buy one.

[Malevicton]

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

We all do have the same right to story content anyways. We have to fight the same encounters for the same rewards. If people got the rewards without the encounter then we wouldn't have the same right to story content. At that point you would actually have a distinct advantage over the people who are playing the game.

You pay the same sub fee as me, yeah. And I paid the same amount for mass effect as everyone else. I still had to actually, yknow, play the game to get to the ending. If you're looking for an interactive story experience you could look into that genre (stuff like the walking dead games). There's an appeal to that. But that's not what this game is supposed to be. The gameplay and story are intended to be tied together.

I still don't see how this seperates ffxiv from the rest of the gaming industry. Other than the games that are specifically marketed as being more storytelling-esque, games have always worked this way and for a lot of people that's the appeal. If you wanna just watch a cool story with no pressure on you to progress it, then watch tv or a movie, or play games in that genre. Complaining about story being behind gameplay in an rpg is like complaining that there's no first-person shooter mode in an rts game. It's kind of on you at that point for playing the wrong game.