The Other Side of The (Raid) Force

[nuyu11]

I'm really not understand why people so scared with the many options.
There is many advantages on it it's not like the farm pt will always watch the cutscene and not the cutscene that they want actually.

As for me I want to beat the hard content is for the glory, pride and achievement.
I dont mind if SE put Coil with difficulty easy, normal, hard & extreme.
Because later on extreme is our choice for those who seek glory, that's is the sense of achievement from my perspective.

And what more important is SE no need to put damn "Echo" because there is already easy difficulty for casual player.
Honestly I still feel unsatisfied beating coil with 15% echo because I'm new.

Or all this claim pro player only wait for the echo to beat coil?

[elemental10]

tl;dr

some people wanna get story content without getting through hard mechanics

My advice: Learn the mechanics.

"It's that simple!" -random ad about new unneeded gadget stuff

[Skeith-Adeline]

Honestly I say it is right. They are unfortunately adding in a more story eccentric mode to Alexander for 3.0, but I do feel that players who spend real hard hours get something that those who aren't able or capable can get.

If they add an Easy mode, take away all loot options.

[LalaRu]

Oh well, had read all and every post of you until now, so I guess it is time to cleanup some misunderstandings.

First, I never asking to have things handled to me. I asked to be able do things at the average level I do the duties, make it expert mode or other, but at duty-level of expertise.

Then, lets make some difference between a player and a raiding player.

A raiding player goes there to be more skilled, and overcome the hardest. A player, well, plays a game. We are at endgame, yes, no reason to ask for facerolls, but I think it is correct the player have things at 'standard level'.

The raiding player goes there for the loot. Once cleared it first time, he goes there and there and there again, for the loot. And more loot.

Well, as said before, take your loot, I don't care it. And it is very correct you raider player will get your shiny BiS loot, and me just the standard whatever duty-level-is loot, for my story-mode nerfed facerolled and unchallenging run. That's ok. I see the story, you get the loot. Win-win.

Where I disagree, and a lot, is when you raider player, tell me I also must be locked out the story, because I'm no good enough. When you tell me I must wait the one or two years until that content nerfed so much that even bad players like me can finally pass (maybe?!).

Tell me, what it changes to YOU, if I will be able to see the story? What it changes to YOU, if the raid have a "faceroll" mode? You do not go there. You are ahead.

[Ashkendor]

Honestly I say it is right. They are unfortunately adding in a more story eccentric mode to Alexander for 3.0, but I do feel that players who spend real hard hours get something that those who aren't able or capable can get.

If they add an Easy mode, take away all loot options.

The normal mode of Alexander is going to have lower item level gear than the hard mode.

Going back and making Easy modes for Coils would be pointless.

[Ilitsa]

WOW got around this by making tiered difficulties of the same raids, so that just about anyone could experience a version of the raid content and all the storyline stuff that went along with it. I get the impression they're going that way in HW, with "normal" Alex being pitched at somewhere around CT-level difficulty, and the hard version being the "actual" raid content. But yeah, I'm bad and lazy and will probably never get around to doing coils either, so that's a huge chunk of storyline I'm missing out on.

big difference imo is that WoW also pushes a LARGE majority of their "main story" of said expansions into the Raid. there is very little "storyline" outside of the raids, which is vastly different from FF. In FF you can experience all of the "Main story" outside of the raid environment, where things like coil are simply supplemental to it

Edit: I'm not really saying one is right, and the other is wrong or anything, just pointing out a slight difference in it

[Kathryn]

Well my daily post limit lifted and I just wanted to say one last thing in this thread as it seems to be the same discussion for the last few pages now.

But I do NOT want an easy mode, I am a more than capable player and I finished up to T9 with my FC & LS's before I fell ill and had to go into hospital for a few months, I am very social and I have a lot of friends, My issue is a lot of my friends FC & LS's are all either afk til HW launch or farming T13 & due to my work hours I am unable to join their groups of a late evening so during the day when I can play groups are just not happening, I have made PF's and sat there for 5 hours with 1 or 2 people joining and offering to sell me a run which is not what I want I have also tried DF which is useless because people just disband after one person gets everyone else killed.

Hell when I was able to join my LS friends in T9 we got him down to 14% health on our very first try so I wouldn't say I want easy mode at all infact its the complete opposite I love a Challenge and I always will, so please don't judge my posts as I want easy mode NAO! because I don't I just want the ability to see the story myself without resorting to Youtube or paying another FC 60m Gil for a run *which I don't have anyway*.

But I've said my piece and I know people will pick it apart, I'm done and thanks.

[Noxifer]

Then contradicts their own post
Yeah...

I don't see that much of a contradiction. How does "reduce content and rewards to appropriate for a 4-man duty" contradict "I don't want the coil loot, just the story"? Sure, it's not exactly the same, but it's still not the opposite viewpoint. Heck, you could have the rewards be the allagan crafting mats that drop from first coil, and it'd count as a reward dungeon-wise, but it wouldn't count as "loot", would it?
Just my opinion, of course ^^

Even as someone who's never been in a static raiding group, it offends me when people want the hardcore content to be nerfed just so they can have the same experience as people who put in a ton more effort and dedication.

But... wouldn't an easier, cakewalk version for those who just want the story and don't really care about the loot and similar stuff be a good thing, since it means there would be less need for nerfs?
Or in Heavensward version, one for the hardcore, one for the midcore. Still slightly lacking a softcore version, of course, but if it keeps both -- especially the harder one -- from being nerfed, it's a good start. Those who want the excitement of the fight get to keep it, and those who can't quite get there yet get to do the already nerfed version of normal mode.

OP and many others who have asked for this aren't asking SE to change coil into a storymode version. They're asking that a separate storymode version gets added. So they get to taste the cake without stealing it from everyone else.


Personally, I'm not quite a raider. Didn't have a big enough group for it for a long time, and not the skills necessary to be accepted into a static group (or the numbercrunching mindset that many of them seem to have). Have enough people now in my FC who are at approximately the same stage except for one or two who have gone further, and we're currently working on T9.
I don't want to 'watch the story on youtube' -- I want to see it in-game with my own character. Read dialogue/monologue at my own pace without having to pause the video every five seconds.
But I also want to go back several times for the gear drops -- SCoB gear may not be the best anymore, but I still want it for glamour purposes. And after Heavensward, I will still want to go into FCoB to get the Dreadwyrm gear. For glamour.
In Heavensward, I want to try my best to do the hard mode of Alexander, because the gear will be dyeable. But if it becomes clear we're not at that level, we'll have to settle for normal mode while we wait (to get better skillwise and better gear, not to get nerfs).

I have no idea how 'vital' the story in Alexander will be, compared to the Coil story. But if it's anywhere close to it, I hope that the Dev team will take a hard look at the possibilities of adding a storymode version.
They've mentioned restructuring the Tower raids into an 8-man mode to make it easier to do those once they're completely outdated and no one does them anymore. I hope they'll look at doing the same with Coil, restructuring them into a 4-man mode. But I also hope that those 'restructured' raids won't be replacements but additions, meaning that you'd still be able to do the full-sized version if you found the people for it.

(Sorry for the rambling.)

[Shiki_Lockhart]

I didn't read all posts but if you just want to see the story you have one easy way to do it and that is youtube. I am sure you will find several videos for each turn. With this you don't even need to play to know the story.

[Lollie]

I'll open with I did not read the entire thread forgive me if this is duplication.

So I have a few questions, and will supply my oppinionated answers to them, feel free to disagree.
Is "extra" storyline content an appropriate reward for harder content in any game?
Yes, its icing on the mainstory cake just like increased or better gear options for good enough to complete the main story of whatever game is.

Should "extra" storyline content contain anything mandatory to follow the mainstory in any game?
Never.

Should information critical to the mainstory continuity be gated behind skill level beyond the average target player in any game?
No, if the average player can't beat t5 (extra content) for example, it is unfair to place the reward of mainstory behind content of similar challenge level.

Does ffxiv's break the previous 2 questions?
No the concepts in the extra story are the are same as those in the mainstory, just presented in a different line.

Should the "extra" story be better enjoyment wise then the mainstory in any game?
Heck no, it is forementioned icing and should be to that level, not main course quality.

Does ffxiv break the previous question?
Heck yeah it does, for the sake of everything holy ease off the foreshadowing devs, the mainstory might as well be glass for how see through it is due to the over use of foreshadowing.