So your giving Summoner Akh morn but your not giving White mage any new water spells.

[Atlaworks]

And yet we have a summoner with akh morn now lol.

They're a DPS class. They get a DPS skill.

WHM already spam holy and, as Gunsblazing outlined, it's DPS in dungeons is already way too high. I love that it stuns- that fills a valuable support in damage mitigation. But man do healers love their holy spam so much that they think they need more DPS spells more than they need healing flexibility. If you want to DPS, roll DPS. I mean, yeah, I don't mind DPSing if you don't need to heal, but DPSing isn't your job- you don't need new innovative ways to cause damage. That's literally the exact opposite of your role.

[Shuon]

...but DPSing isn't your job- you don't need new innovative ways to cause damage. That's literally the exact opposite of your role.

Yes and no.

Healers also need to solo when not in parties. We need other forms of attacks.

As I mentioned earlier I don't mind quake, flood, tornado etc with comparable damage but with other supports/utilities but not top of wanted list of things.

[Atlaworks]

Yes and no.

Healers also need to solo when not in parties. We need other forms of attacks.

As I mentioned earlier I don't mind quake, flood, tornado etc with comparable damage but with other supports/utilities but not top of wanted list of things.

You got Cleric Stance and an incredibly spammable, stunning AoE with high potency. That's your solo potential. You're not a DPS.

New DPS skills are not your priority. It's cool you have them, and awesome that SE made soloing as any role pleasant. But if you're rolling a healing class and asking for more damage skills when you have Holy already, something has gone horribly awry.

[Dualblade]

Holy isn't the end all and be all of WHM damage. Its not only cosumes more MP then any other attack, but it only really makes up for that with atleast 3 enemies being hit by it...and since apparently we will only want to fight 1-2 enemies at a time in Heavensward, it won't be quite as good. The new attacks will probably be good for this, or for quick AoEs that don't consume quite as much mana (I'm assuming the new Aero is an AoE, thats what it looks like atleast.)

[Yumi_umi]

And yet we have a summoner with akh morn now lol.

Can u imagine how troll that'd be in t13 if there were 4 smns casting it and then the tanks and healers flinch due to muscle memory and use their cds lol.
Also u should change it to
" can we have an ( offensive ) water spell "

[Talia_Hailwind]

They're a DPS class. They get a DPS skill.

WHM already spam holy and, as Gunsblazing outlined, it's DPS in dungeons is already way too high. I love that it stuns- that fills a valuable support in damage mitigation. But man do healers love their holy spam so much that they think they need more DPS spells more than they need healing flexibility. If you want to DPS, roll DPS. I mean, yeah, I don't mind DPSing if you don't need to heal, but DPSing isn't your job- you don't need new innovative ways to cause damage. That's literally the exact opposite of your role.

Yeah we can put out some holys for extra damage like on shivas adds, but thats as useful as it gets, yeah I know I'm a healer as I pointed out in the first post.
But we need dps spells outside of dungeons, we have an expansion on the way and lots of overworld content coming.

And I don't want to spend it going:

"Aero 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" "stone 3" .........(you get the idea).


I know what your thinking "why not just use black mage then?"
No.
Its not about how fast I kill the mob, its how I do it and not watching the same stone animation, all I want is a little bit of choice thats all, and white mage (and all classes for that matter) deserve that much.

[GunsBlazing]

Holy isn't the end all and be all of WHM damage. Its not only cosumes more MP then any other attack, but it only really makes up for that with atleast 3 enemies being hit by it...and since apparently we will only want to fight 1-2 enemies at a time in Heavensward, it won't be quite as good. The new attacks will probably be good for this, or for quick AoEs that don't consume quite as much mana (I'm assuming the new Aero is an AoE, thats what it looks like atleast.)

We only want to fight one or two enemies in heavensward ALONE, is what they were referring to. They said that in response to the question someone posed about the current state of the game, how there are no monsters out there that pose any real threat to players. He responded by saying that two of those field mobs would give you a hell of a fight, if you managed to survive. That's also likely not going to last long, either. We'll outgear those monsters by the time the first content patch post-expansion hits, and we'll be fighting 5 of them at once again. In dungeons, you'll have a party of four and a tank to soak up the damage. Not to mention that WHM holy spam gives you 7 seconds of AOE stun total to mitigate damage while you're holy nuking. All you need to do is cast regen, start holying, and for 7 seconds that regen is more than enough to keep your tank alive. Anything after that, you have to watch. Keep holying til your tanks at about 40%, then drop cleric stance, cure 2, put up another regen, and holy some more. SE has tried to make dungeons difficult to speed run by adding bigger and stronger mobs to the fray in the areas you can pull multiple groups in, and to this date, it has never stopped people from pulling big enough groups to merit AOE DPSing them down. Examples; The goobbues in Snowcloak, the Morbols in AK Hard, the Dullahans in AK normal and even the corrupted sprites in pharos... All of these were monsters that SE thought would be too strong for us to AOE down, and thus prevent speed runs, and every time, we have still AOE'd them down. Holy is still casted in every single one of these situations, as well, assuming your WHM knows how to properly play their job. It'll still be used in HW, no matter how much SE tries to prevent big pulls from happening.

Obviously you don't holy on one or two targets, nobody other than you even mentioned such a notion. I specifically mentioned holy being the strongest AOE in the game, and it is. Get a blm, have them do their aoe rotation for 30 seconds on a dummy, and have a whm do nothing but cast holy. The WHM does more damage in the end. Yeah, whm will eventually run out of MP, but no AOE pull in any dungeon that exists today lives long enough to burn all your MP when you're holy spamming, unless you're doing it without cleric stance on.

[Dualblade]

snip

Atla was pretty much saying we don't need any more DPS skills for WHM because Holy, which I should have quoted him since I ment to be in reply to him. Of course in parties even with the new skills Holy is the way to go (Unless Aero 3 is an AoE, in which case it might be put in once in there sometimes), and eventually we are going to outgear these mobs...but not for a bit, and the new attack skills will probably be needed. As well I would say that Snowcloak and AK Hard aren't good examples, simply because for the most part people were outgearing it by the time those came out period. Pharos and AK Normal I can't say though since I'm not sure if we did outgear those (I think we did for Pharos? If I remember part of the problem was we outgear'd it enough to do lots of damage, but not enough to do with the tons of adds that spawned during bosses cause of it.)

And again, I was talking about overworld AKA solo. Dungeons, Holy is king for WHM.

According to the link from the Detailed Heavensward thread, Aero III is an AoE, so I could see it being used in between Holy's. And apparently Assize not only does AoE damage, but also heals nearby party members...can't complain about that!

[Atlaworks]

Its not about how fast I kill the mob, its how I do it and not watching the same stone animation, all I want is a little bit of choice thats all, and white mage (and all classes for that matter) deserve that much.

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice say hi. So does Ruin. So does does Fast Blade/Savage Blade/Rage of Halone... Spinning Edge/Gust Slash/Aeolian Edge... Heavy Swing/Skull Sunder/Butcher's Block... Those are bread and butter rotations, and every assosciated class will see them a million times when soloing, in that order. Unless you're talking about AoEs. But that's why you have Holy, right? You know, that thing you're massively underselling the power of. Killing Shiva adds? Try highest sustained AoE damage on trash in dungeon runs of any class. Fluid Aura is a cooldown of 30 seconds and is used primarily for soloing or more commonly for irritating melee DPS and tanks in dungeons. Did you want more offensive cooldowns? Go roll a DPS.

You're a healer. Not a DPS. You are not special.

Tell you what. I'll be happy with you getting all the attack spells you want, if Cleric Stance gets nerfed so you can't change stances in combat. You still get to solo, you don't get to out-DPS the actual DPS classes in dungeons. And woe betides me, who unleashes the fires of hell upon myself.

[Shuon]

New DPS skills are not your priority.

Honey which part of "As I mentioned earlier I don't mind quake, flood, tornado etc with comparable damage but with other supports/utilities but not top of wanted list of things." do you not understand?