RIP Astrologian

[Yuri_Hyuga]

Except its not really a good idea for a healer to basically have 10 different low potency heals...

...Having it a pre fight decision lets each mode be powerful and unique in its own right...

That's not how it would work (or works). I mean, technically, I suppose... but it's essentially the same 'heal,' just converted into a shield.

It's no more interesting, it's a slight mechanical slant on the same spells.

Basically, the idea to have it toggle-able mid combat is much cooler:

Party is hurt, heal up in curative mode real fast; incoming big damage, toggle to barrier mode & prep; big damage taken, barrier's are down, toggle back to curative mode.

If healing only one or a few targets at a time, juggling these two healing-postures would be a very rich, dynamic experience & play very skillfully.

The way it would be balanced is just having the potency of either be less than that of both the WHM & SCH.

This would make it a very interesting mix of both healing styles in combat, with neither of the two's advanced HW mechanics, but instead cards to give it that added richness & complexity.

And you're off with regards to it creating more uniqueness if made a pre-fight decision...

It does the opposite. Basically, having it be predetermined means you're either stuck in WHM or SCH mode...

Sure you can afford that tiny bit of added potency for the inability to toggle back-and-forth mid combat... but you're losing that dynamic gameplay which' where much of the uniqueness would come from.

Having it predetermined actually waters it down, rather than enhancing it.

Not only that, having it toggle-able makes for a far more interesting 'supportive healer' type of role as AST could cake/layer on added, shared effects with the other healer-type mid fight.

Let me stack some barrier on your barrier, let me slather some regen on your regen... but wait! You're merely a WHM & everybody's topped off now, let me handle it from here... BARRIER'S FOR ALL!

Or, if you've got two AST's... think of the synergy two in-sync with one another could have... esp. if raid damage is mixed up, like half the group is 100% while the other half is mildly damaged.

"I got the regen's, you shield up the other half! Oh no, my barrier's got popped, switching out! Don't worry, I just healed em back up real quick--time to shield up with me bro!"

[Sylve]

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The problem is, currently, a SCH handles damage preperation and the WHM handles restoration in large chunks.

If an AST could do both at once with nothing more than the press of a button, suddenly AST+AST becomes the best heal comp, period.

Why would you take a SCH when an AST provides the Barriers AND the big heals?
Why would you take a WHM when an AST provides the big heals AND the Barriers?

The answer is, you wouldn't. The AST would flat out replace both those jobs by being able to do two jobs worth of healing on their own.

It wouldn't make it dynamic at all.
Top off the group with WHM mode then switch to Barrier to apply shields, switch back to WHM mode.
Shields go down, damage is taken.
Heal up, switch to Barrier, reapply shields and then back to WHM mode.

Hardly dynamic.

[Viridiana]

The problem is, currently, a SCH handles damage preperation and the WHM handles restoration in large chunks.

If an AST could do both at once with nothing more than the press of a button, suddenly AST+AST becomes the best heal comp, period.

That assumes a lot. A large part of why people avoid SCH+SCH right now is because Galvanize doesn't stack at all, so what makes you think AST shields will stack? Especially given that SE's response to SCH/SCH not stacking is to let one of them go pure heal? And we've already been told they don't have the throughput of the other two classes, so taking two healers who don't have throughput would be a bad idea.

[Lillia]

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Because Astro may not be able to provide big heals or heavy shielding with their barrier, it's like the RDM of the healers basically... It can do both but it's not great at either. .-.

Keep in mind that RDM never ever replaced BLM or WHM nor sword users just because they were able to do all three. Rather they were a side asset to them, much like astro would probably be with their cards.

[lololink]

Because Astro may not be able to provide big heals or heavy shielding with their barrier, it's like the RDM of the healers basically... It can do both but it's not great at either. .-.

Keep in mind that RDM never ever replaced BLM or WHM nor sword users just because they were able to do all three. Rather they were a side asset to them, much like astro would probably be with their cards.

No, AST will be able to replace them both, if not they would be useless and not balanced.

[Lillia]

No, AST will be able to replace them both, if not they would be useless and not balanced.

Just saying no they will be able to doesn't really help or explain anything... could I ask you to go further into your reasoning? :x

And to just explain what I see? I see two astro's being able to heal enough to get by but not better than WHMxSCH combo which means two astro healings would be with struggle in comparison to WHMxSCH and the only unique merit would be their cards. I personally would only be more concerned on matter of barrier stacking.

Together with either WHM or SCH I see them working a lot better because they can offer a nice card buff and then the affects the whm or sch's counterpart could offer in a miniature form e.g slightly weaker HoTs or Barriers.

[lololink]

Just saying no they will be able to doesn't really help or explain anything... could I ask you to go further into your reasoning? :x

And to just explain what I see? I see two astro's being able to heal enough to get by but not better than WHMxSCH combo which means two astro healings would be with struggle in comparison to WHMxSCH and the only unique merit would be their cards. I personally would only be more concerned on matter of barrier stacking.

Together with either WHM or SCH I see them working a lot better because they can offer a nice card buff and then the affects the whm or sch's counterpart could offer in a miniature form e.g slightly weaker HoTs or Barriers.

Because if AST + WHM or SCH + AST is weaker than SCH + WHM then all the raid players will go SCH + WHM, just like how SMN and DRG were unwanted in the final Coil compared to the other jobs. It can be even slight weaker that players would not take them, a simple debuff such as dragon kick was enough to put dragon out of Coil for a while.

[Sylve]

Because Astro may not be able to provide big heals or heavy shielding with their barrier, it's like the RDM of the healers basically... It can do both but it's not great at either. .-.

Keep in mind that RDM never ever replaced BLM or WHM nor sword users just because they were able to do all three. Rather they were a side asset to them, much like astro would probably be with their cards.

If the AST had lower potency heals than SCHs and WHMs, they'd struggle in Light Parties where they were the sole healer.
SCH works out fine because Adloq = Cure II when accounting for the Shield and Eos is free spam healing.

The RDM didn't replace the BLM and WHM nor sword users because those Jobs brought something to teh table that the RDM didn't, hence why it supplemented them rather than outright replaced them.
Do you really think the BLMs would get a place in XI parties if RDMs had the exact same offensive power in their spells while also providing healing and buffs? I think not.

That assumes a lot. A large part of why people avoid SCH+SCH right now is because Galvanize doesn't stack at all, so what makes you think AST shields will stack? Especially given that SE's response to SCH/SCH not stacking is to let one of them go pure heal? And we've already been told they don't have the throughput of the other two classes, so taking two healers who don't have throughput would be a bad idea.

And yet WHM+WHM is still allowed to stack.

The issue wouldn't be with the stacking of shields, its the ability to provide both shielding AND big heals at the same time.
It'd be like taking 2 WHMs and getting a free 9th slot SCH in your raid team.
You would have the ability to provide 2x large heals in addition to being able to suppress damage via shields when required.

If both ASTs stayed in WHM mode with one of them designated to switch to Barrier before any major AoEs to prep shields and then goes back to WHM Mode to provide those bursty heals, you essentially get 3 healers worth of healing in.

[Lillia]

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Honestly, SCH and WHM don't need all the potency they have to solo heal. People were able to solo heal stuff like Titan HM in darklight stages before people were even able to actually clear it the way they do now lol....

[Sylve]

Honestly, SCH and WHM don't need all the potency they have to solo heal. People were able to solo heal stuff like Titan HM in darklight stages before people were even able to actually clear it the way they do now lol....

Given that Titan HM has an ilvl req of 57 ... With 8 people that are overgearing the content AND know the content, It'd be kind of embarrassing if they couldn't solo heal it.