Terrible Payment System

[Catapult]

This just popped up in the FFXI forums:

Something interesting about ClickandBuy....

Careful with that story. A little digging suggests there is more to it than meets the eye. The person in question was promoted from an officer to acting manager at exactly the same time they announced the clean-up, presumably in response to the previous manager's resignation. What he then DID before and after the title change is another story. Did he sweep things under the carpet or in to the bin properly? Not sure, more digging needed.

Wait that mean it not legal either in The U.S.A or Canada.... or many country too ... that is really not good ...

It may be referring to EU matters only. Not sure what the legistlation is. That is however a good point, as it suggests the system and regulations are tailored to an EU environment with little concern for intercontinental services. So why is a Europe-aligned company trying to engage in financial operations outside their area of concern and/or experience?

[Catapult]

Because any good news is good to have. This at least clears up the FSA-authorised status situation, even if other concerns remain. Most of it I had picked up and guessed at since sending the inquiry, but it is good to hear it from the regulator themselves.

My original enquiry email:

Hello,

I am a member of an online gaming community playing the online game Final Fantasy XIV, produced by Square Enix. Being an online game, there are to be subscription fees for this game in the future. One of the prevelant payment options (and indeed the only payment option for many regions around the world) is through the company ClickandBuy based in London, which quotes the FSA registration number of 454127.

I would like to refer you to the following website:
http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/...bereich=surfer

In your database, this company is listed as being "No longer authorized".

If I may ask, at what point in time did this company lose its authorisation? Also, are any activities occuring in an attempt to restore the authorisation? Lastly, and presuming the worst with this question, would the continued operation of this company in financial services constitute a violation of United Kingdom law?

It is my hope that I might be able to take any feedback on this matter to my community of players, who have been receiving very little in the way of correspondance on this topic of our concern, from both the game producer and ClickandBuy itself. Any information you can provide may assist us in deciding whether or not to engage with this company in the future.

Yours in sincerity,

***My Name***

And this is the FSA response:

Dear Mr ***My Surname***

Thank you for your email dated 31 July 2011.

I understand from your email that you are writing to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) in relation to the authorisation of ClickandBuy International Limited (ClickandBuy). I note that you have been requested to pay fees to ClickandBuy for a online gaming subscription and after some research into the firm you have discovered a discrepancy with regard to their authorisation by the FSA. You would like to know if the firm are authorised by us as their website suggests they are and if not the reasons behind it and what that means for you.

Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to send in your email and appreciate the importance of clarifying this matter before paying your subscription fees. I would therefore like to explain the role of the FSA and provide some further information in relation to your query.

I would like to clarify that we are the UK's financial regulator set up by the government to regulate financial services and protect your rights. This means we set standards that financial services firms have to meet and we take action if they don't. We regulate most types of financial services firms, such as banks, building societies, credit unions, insurance companies, financial advisers, stockbrokers, and mortgage and insurance sellers. For further information on our role please read the attached link to the consumer pages of our website: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumer...on/index.shtml

In relation to your query, I can confirm that ClickandBuy is listed on the FSA public register as no longer FSA authorised, however, the reason for this is because the firm is now registered as a E-money firm. This means that the firm is authorised by us to issue electronic money under the Electronic Money Regulations 2011 (EMR). The activities the firm are authorised to carry out are:

* Services enabling cash placement on a payment account
* Services enabling cash withdrawals from a payment account
* Execution of payment transactions (not covered by a credit line)
* Execution of payment transactions (covered by a credit line)
* Issuing payment instruments or acquiring payment transactions
* Money remittance
* Execution of payment transactions via telecoms, IT system or network operator
* Issuing electronic money

Details of E-money firms can be found on the FSA public register under a different section and from the this can be accessed using the buttons on the left hand side of the screen on the register entry page for ClickandBuy. If you would like to view the details of this firm and other firms that are authorised under the EMR 2011 you can use the link below to the relevant part of the register where you will need to select the top link on the page. Please note that you will need to scroll down to get to ClickandBuy whose register number is 900024:
www.fsa.gov.uk/register/eMoneyLanding.do

For future reference, all the firms we regulate appear on the FSA Register and each firm's 6 digit reference number is unique. You can check if a firm is on the FSA Register by searching under its name, postcode or firm reference number:
www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do

I trust this is of assistance and clarifies that ClickandBuy are still authorised by us but now fall under our Electronic Money Regulations and this is the reason why their website still states that they are authorised by us.

If you have any future questions on financial services and products, you may find it easier to call our Consumer Helpline on 0845 606 1234 (call rates may vary). You can also access relevant information online at www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation and via the Money Advice Service website: www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/.

Yours sincerely


Stephanie Winson (Mrs)
Customer Contact Centre
Financial Services Authority
Consumer Helpline: 0845 606 1234 (call rates may vary)
www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation

What this means for us is that they are indeed operating within enforceable legal bounds. Which means if they f*** up, they have people to answer to.

Of course I'd prefer that didn't happen in the first place...

[SilvertearRen]

So, I'm done with ClickandBuy anyway.

And then I find out they do the majority of their business with gambling sites?

Oh, wow. I would never trust my credit card information with a bunch of gamblers. They usually have good poker faces, and tend to lie ten times out of eleven.

Square Enix, next time, do your damn homework before picking up a payment processor in the future.

Wow.

Because any good news is good to have. This at least clears up the FSA-authorised status situation, even if other concerns remain. Most of it I had picked up and guessed at since sending the inquiry, but it is good to hear it from the regulator themselves.

My original enquiry email:

And this is the FSA response:

What this means for us is that they are indeed operating within enforceable legal bounds. Which means if they f*** up, they have people to answer to.

Of course I'd prefer that didn't happen in the first place...

There's a lot of people who are upset at CnB because they f*cked up, but have chosen the less headache-inducing way: cancelling their cards and leaving CnB to hang on the garrote they made for themselves.

If anyone out there has been screwed by CnB and still want to even things, I hope they contact the FSA with a formal complaint and get an investigation going, because it's pretty clear they need to be dealt with. :\

[LillithaFenimore]

I think CnB need an old fashioned spanking...*bump*

[LillithaFenimore]

Bumping this to the top. You won't quiet us down easily!

[Phenidate]

The Devs said they only respond to active threads. We're at over 400 responses and more views than nearly any other current thread and we still have NO RESPONSE FROM THE DEVS on this.

What gives?

[Kailea_Nagisa]

The Devs said they only respond to active threads. We're at over 400 responses and more views than nearly any other current thread and we still have NO RESPONSE FROM THE DEVS on this.

What gives?

it has been said many MANY times, this is not something that can be commented on so easily, especially if SE sees that it might have to turn legal.

[Atoli]

I'm afraid they think this is an issue they can deal with later, when the game actually goes P2P.
Only problem with this is that they won't have any time left to do it, then..

So now we know C&B is still allowed by the British government to do business.
That's not really making me trust them more, because there are dozens of other companies in GB which are ALSO allowed to do business, and which I wouldn't want to give my credit card number to, either.

I think the only real option we have is to use Crysta and never shut up until they give us additional payment options (or any payment options at all in some countries, C&B can't be counted as an option).

[SilvertearRen]

I'm afraid they think this is an issue they can deal with later, when the game actually goes P2P.
Only problem with this is that they won't have any time left to do it, then..

So now we know C&B is still allowed by the British government to do business.
That's not really making me trust them more, because there are dozens of other companies in GB which are ALSO allowed to do business, and which I wouldn't want to give my credit card number to, either.

I think the only real option we have is to use Crysta and never shut up until they give us additional payment options (or any payment options at all in some countries, C&B can't be counted as an option).

Actually, what really speaks louder is ending your subscription, period. When they see that a large number of PC players are not updating their payment methods for when the game goes P2P, they are going to have to make changes - and fast.

I don't believe Square Enix should sit on their hands regarding this matter. Get the infrastructure into place ASAP...

[Chocobits]

I'm afraid they think this is an issue they can deal with later, when the game actually goes P2P.
Only problem with this is that they won't have any time left to do it, then..

So now we know C&B is still allowed by the British government to do business.
That's not really making me trust them more, because there are dozens of other companies in GB which are ALSO allowed to do business, and which I wouldn't want to give my credit card number to, either.

I think the only real option we have is to use Crysta and never shut up until they give us additional payment options (or any payment options at all in some countries, C&B can't be counted as an option).

Well no, I don't think it'll be until THIS game goes pay to play. FFXI players are being forcefully moved to this payment system at the start of September. What I'm angered about is that the end of the month is approaching and they have not laid out their plans for new payment methods. Only a "We're aware of it, will get back to you later" comment. Not even a generic status update such as "While we can't give immediate details, additional payment methods are in the process of being reviewed and we would like to assure the playerbase that their concerns regarding billing options will be addressed blahblah".

The clock is literally ticking down. 2 weeks from today. If the FFXI situation is not cleared up come September, and half as many people quit or are forced out of the system as indicated, SE is going to have bigger issues than air conditioning bills to worry about, and that's going to directly impact funding for FFXIV development.