[plea] please fix Mudra Lag first, plus please reconsider added positionals for NIN

[Duelle]

As a NIN main I'm not really fond of the idea of having to have positionals (I'll deal but still not fond) but nothing about having positionals added screams job homogenization to me.

Assuming it's positionals like what MNK and DRG have, you're essentially doing away with the current NIN gameplay to make it like MNK and DRG. That is homogenization in terms of gameplay.

I personally hate that word, but this is one of the few times where it can actually be used.

[SDaemon]

Adding positionals to a job in which play difficulty and distinctive style do not entail positionals being the primary difficulty is homogenization of the job.

Adding positionals isn't going to fundamentally turn a NIN into a MNK or DRG. They will still play differently, function differently and provide for their party differently.

[FallenArisen0990]

I don't like the fact it's getting positionals as well but it's whatever. Tho how bad are people's connection/server with this Mudra lag? As someone stated, that's impossible to fix with how lag works with MMOs. Since 2.4, I've had like few cases of lag and even then I just slow the cast a bit. Bard got the nerfing I wanted in an ability form so I guess Even Steven. What I'm more mad about is enmity control. Why in god's name would I want that?

[Adire]

Adding positionals isn't going to fundamentally turn a NIN into a MNK or DRG. They will still play differently, function differently and provide for their party differently.

It is going to add the difficulty of playing MNK on top of the difficulty of playing NIN.

I played NIN because I enjoy managing timers and CDs and such more than positioning. Now I have one less alternative to playing a positional reliant class.

I've said in another thread that I'd rather them add more difficulty to NIN in ways that make it its own class rather than copying and pasting the thing that makes MNK difficult and engaging to play. More mudra combinations, more DoTs to keep up, that's what would keep NIN feeling like NIN.

SE felt NIN was fine for this whole time, giving it minimal changes. Why change it now, especially to skills that are already engrained in NIN's minds? It's pointless really. The class already functions fine. the difficulty is there, even if it's different than typical.

[Spiritreaver1217]

...What I'm more mad about is enmity control. Why in god's name would I want that?

That is just SE's idea of the rogue/thief class in a MMO. They feel emnity management is that party role's 'thing'.

[Tiggy]

SE felt NIN was fine for this whole time, giving it minimal changes. Why change it now, especially to skills that are already engrained in NIN's minds? It's pointless really. The class already functions fine. the difficulty is there, even if it's different than typical.

Because every job is gaining 10 levels and new abilities. Every single class is changing. It's not like nin was singled out here and being picked on. Also, you seem to think because nothing changed until that it means something. It's the youngest class in the game with the least amount of time for it to have been changed, and secondly no new skills were added to any class since launch so that distinction doesn't mean anything or prove anything.

What I'm more mad about is enmity control. Why in god's name would I want that?

Thief, which Ninja/Rogue in this game are loosely based on, had enmity control in XI so there is precedent to this and it worked great. Secondly, did I miss the memo where what you personally wanted was the most important thing for the future of this class?

[Duelle]

That is just SE's idea of the rogue/thief class in a MMO. They feel emnity management is that party role's 'thing'.

WoW did it pretty well with Tricks of the Trade, so I'm hoping "enmity control" is basically NIN getting a skill along the lines of Tricks of the Trade.

For those who never played WoW, what Tricks does is transfer enmity generated by you (for the 10 second duration) to your chosen target. The chosen target would get a damage buff as well. In FFXIV terms, a NIN would use Tricks of the Trade on the tank, and for the next 10 seconds any attack performed by the NIN would count towards the tank's enmity while said tank also gets a small damage buff. Seeing that our version of taunt only switches enmity and doesn't lock the mob into attacking you for 6 seconds (meaning a DPS or healer sneezing would steal aggro), it might be helpful during tank swaps.

[Tiggy]

1) Doesn't matter. Positionals are positionals, it's the sheer fact/principle that more are being added. Please understand his context.

Yes, context of the move absolutely matters. The fact you don't seem to understand that only shows how poorly you've thought this situation through.

2) "they can't fix...," "looking into possible fixes...," contradict much?

Their words not mine. They said they can't fix the internet protocols that are the problem. The possible fixes were based around changing the moves in a more fundamental way to how they work. So it doesn't contradict at all. Also, it was their words not mine. So please try to remember you're assault on me achieves nothing when I'm just telling you what they said.

3) Change will happen, doesn't mean I can't express certain changes that I dislike or think are shifting in a poor direction.

Expressing concerns are fine, but that the demands that people are making go far beyond expressing concern and that much comes across as just ignorant entitlement.
Let the game come out. See how it actually plays. Nothing is going to change in development now anyway. It's a month away from release and people haven't even touched the class. As far as they are concerned you guys, and this is true, literally have no idea what you're talking about.

[Adire]

Because every job is gaining 10 levels and new abilities. Every single class is changing. It's not like nin was singled out here and being picked on. Also, you seem to think because nothing changed until that it means something. It's the youngest class in the game with the least amount of time for it to have been changed, and secondly no new skills were added to any class since launch so that distinction doesn't mean anything or prove anything.

Big difference here. None of the other classes are having potentially hugely gamechanging changes made to existing skills. Other classes are getting new concepts added with new abilities. NIN is getting old abilities changed after this entire time. How would other players feel if existing skills were suddenly changed in their job in such a way?


Also, it does mean something. Yoshida and team have stressed their feelings that NIN did not need "drastic changes". Few calls have been made with claims that "NIN is too easy" on the part of the community as well. That's because NIN's difficulty and appeal lies elsewhere other than in positionals to many. It was even said during the recent live letter that NIN did not need drastic changes, though adding positionals to existing skills is, in the eyes of many, indeed a drastic change.

And as others have mentioned, NIN currently is not a job that would do well with positionals for various reasons. My friend is a very skilled MNK main and even agrees that NIN will be extremely clunky if rapid use of positioning is required.

I just do not understand why copying and pasting another class's primary playstyle to NIN in a considerable amount is a good thing. They would have been better off either adding more difficulty to NIN with the existing playstyle via new skills, or adding a seperate concept completely. Maybe giving NIN some stacks to consume would be a good new concept, since lots of other jobs seem to be getting that anyways.

[Nexxus]

As for Mudra, i think everyone one know wich mudras set will trigger wich ninjutsu... the fact is... you can know perfectly that, you still get some fail despit you've hit the right button set, because of lags...
So either they fix the Mudra (i don't know how, no fail anymore ? and put the rabbit into an emote for everyone !!) either they give the ninjutsu without having to set the mudra's (a bit lame tho) and then i will dont mind with positional, but honestly, there will be more funny things to monk if i have to choose between 2 jobs with positional...

And i'd like to talk also about the DRG buff that occured some month ago, where they did get an enhanced Magic Resistance on stuff, and less positional, they did enhanced greatly their defense overall while the Blood for Blood still gives us a 20% Defense Malus for cross class.