Devs Want Behest Feedback

[Chiz]

I would like to see SE copy Warhammer's Public Quest system, verbatim. Yes that game was ultimately a failure, but the Public Quest system was one of the nice innovations and contributions that game made to the MMO genre imo. With the new multi-claim system being implemented, this shouldn't be a problem where players will have the choice of grouping together, or not.

For those who are not familiar with Warhammer's Public Quest it went something like this:

• You arrive at a camp and see a timer for a scripted event cycle.
• Mobs spawn and you need to kill a set # before the next cycle begins.
• Bosses or Named Mobs spawn and you need to kill them.
• Contribution is tallied and calculated via damage and healing over the course of the event.
• Loot bags are distributed to the top 3-10 contributors, with the highest contributors getting a chance at rarer bags.
• Each bag has a set loot table that has items that can be used by any of the main class types.
• The more rare bags have better loot, with loot being appropriate range for the individual camp.

This model satisfies a number of different gameplay aspects and would build on what Behest already provides to a limited degree while addressing some of its core deficiencies:

• Alternative method of leveling for each level range.
• A means to play in group or solo and contribute effectively.
• Fun and engaging boss fights at early levels.
• Loot you can use!

[Aleczan]

I don't quite agree with auto-group for Behest. I have a reason. I'm not sure if this issue has been already discussed in this thread or not, because I only skimmed the first and last pages, not all pages.

There is a kind of people who only join Behest for free Skill Points rewarded when Behest is completed. I've run into these people several times. It is very frustrating and upsetting to have to fight more enemies than one should. I'm not sure if enemies level increase or not, but surely they increase in number. And then it is much harder for a person to get Swift Bonus at the end of Behest. This wouldn't be too much of a problem if there are plenty of participants to help you kill already, but this kind of Behest douche will pick camp with very few people (maybe they think it's better if less people see them doing this).

The person would just stand there, or try to hide somewhere near the camp, or try to secretly stalk the Battlewarden to claim reward (I cannot remember if SP is automatically granted or if we have to talk), but never participate in killing any mobs. This is already horrible. It would be even worse if these kind of leechers are automatically added to the party, since they will also gimp the EXP/SP gained from defeating individual enemy as well.


I know this is not the system's fault, but more like player's manner (or lack thereof). But it would be nice if DEVS can make any system to prevent or discourage this parasite-behavior. Like, for example, implement something that can check if the person help kill/engage any monster or not. If they're idle, Battlewarden should tell them they do not deserv the reward (Skill Points and gil).


Additionally, we can make separated parties and win Behest just fine. Each group can choose and engage mobs of their own. This would benefit in term of splitting force for even better effect, especially when monster groups are far apart or are spawning far from where other group die. People at behest, even if they try to keep in good range from Recommended Rank stated by Battlewarden, the rank gap could still be as high as 8 ranks or even 10, as I've observed. Therefore, it is not always that the "everyone together" party is the best option, especially when this setting happens.

[Geesus]

The person would just stand there, or try to hide somewhere near the camp, or try to secretly stalk the Battlewarden to claim reward (I cannot remember if SP is automatically granted or if we have to talk), but never participate in killing any mobs. This is already horrible. It would be even worse if these kind of leechers are automatically added to the party, since they will also gimp the EXP/SP gained from defeating individual enemy as well.

I know this is not the system's fault, but more like player's manner (or lack thereof).

I think if anything Chiz's response to give reward based on the amount of participation could help with this issue Aleczan. I like the auto-group feature except, and this may also have been mentioned already but, what if you only have certain classes there like Thm or Con and a few DDs or Tanks? If the auto system was built off of a "standardized" PT it may not work. If they just randomly throw you in a group and you are missing a healing or DoT/Nuke component, the auto system may be a failure. But, guess we shall see.

[Aleczan]

Oh, right, if they can make it and if it works for EXP/SP reward too.
I was thinking about loot and treasure when I read that. But hell yeah it should be able to work under the same system!

I truly hope they will make it happen.

[Rentahamster]

I don't quite agree with auto-group for Behest. I have a reason.

Yes, now that the bulk of the SP gains are gotten through the reward at the end rather than the actual killing of mobs, leechers are now a problem. This would still exist with or without auto-grouping, however. You still get the same rewards just for signing up, not for being in a party.

[Aleczan]

Let me elaborate my reason. If it forces auto-grouping upon registering to a Behest, not only that the leecher will become a part of the party, hence taking away the EXP/SP that other "working" party members are putting their labour into, but there's also no guarantee that the system will land the "leader" role on a correct player. Then booting the leech from the party (in order to, like, allow PT members to gain slightly more SP from killing individual mobs than having a leech in PT) could be impossible. The party might have to disband and regroup anyway, just to kick out the leech. Now we're back at start, inviting people to join party.

There are also so many types of Behest Douche, people that you (or I) don't want to be in the party. Therefore I still think manual invite is better. I've often run into undesirable players at Behest, and I'd rather be in a separated party. Ah...but then again we can simply just disband from the automated party and form another party if that happens.

Well, I think I have nothing against auto-group in Behest anymore, if the system does not come with obligation that everyone MUST be in same party for Behest. As now we can have different parties participate in same Behest, each help kill the monsters separately, and get about equal SP reward at the end.

You're right. They will exist regardless of auto-grouping system. And this is why I totally agree with Behest contribution evaluating system. Since leeching people might not be interested in trivial SP obtained from defeating enemies, they're mainly there for the free SP at the end of Behest.

P.S. Sorry my replies are kind of confusing, I've been confronted with too many Behest Douches and was in angry mode. So the idea of auto-grouping blew my mind ><;;

[syntaxlies]

i accepted a behest figuring i was doing it solo and went afk. by he time i got back to my computer someone had joined and killed all the mobs and i got the sp bonus for it. As happy as i was to get sp for nothing this can easily be exploited and needs to be stopped.

[Aleczan]

LOL. I would understand if the person returns from AFK and says something like...oops I went to the bathroom. But yeah this system needs a fix.

Moreover, most, if not all, of the leechers I've run into were doing it intentionally. They, sometimes, deliberately come to the Behest camp with underrank class. Like, rank 12 at Horizon (recommended 25) and they know very well that they cannot help kill any monster. There was one underrank person at Treespeak who did that to my BF when he thought he was going to solo Behest in an abandoned camp. My BF asked him why he joined Behest and not helping, and that he's far too low rank to survive against Behest mobs. He replied, sorry I solo here. (Which means this is his normal mobs camp for EXP, I guess?) He kept joining Behest every hour and told my BF "Sorry I'm gonna stay because I solo here." Dude, OK if you want to solo, but do not friggin' leech and ruin other people's Behest. You made it so tough and don't help to kill even a single enemy. This is so disgusting.