Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[Kosmos992k]

**snippage**There's a certain point where having more HP isn't necessarily a good thing.
To put it another way, STR does two things: helps mitigation and helps DPS. VIT does one thing: HP.
By using SOME STR, not only are you helping the group as a whole by dealing more damage, you're also mitigating damage rather than absorbing it, which means you require less healing overall.
**snippage** There's a huge benefit to using certain pieces of gear over others. Tanks are interesting in this case as they have a LOT of options and tweaks them can make to their "loadout," especially for their jewelry.

Indeed, and I agree. I have a gear set that is heavy on VIT and defensive attributes, I also have a STR biased set. However, my ilvl isn't yet high enough for me to really start playing with my gear set in that manner, because the differences in the gear sets don't really move the needle enough to worry about - yet.

If I am working with a healer I know and trust, I can go for a more STR biased set and worry less about VIT, but if I am not, I will go the more conservative route simply for the comfort factor.

I'm not really up on all of the theory-crafting, but I am thinking that as a tank I should not stack STR specifically for DPS since my base DPS is really not good enough for my STR to drive large changes in overall DPS. Sword Oath probably has a greater impact than any amount of STR stacking.

On the other hand if I stack STR and hit a value that provides a bump to the parry and block% as well as DMG blocked%, I could probably justify it, unless it takes too large a chunk of HP. Sadly I'm not well geared enough to have 2000HP (or whatever value) to spare....

But of course a lot of this is theory-craft and BiS discussion and get's away from the basic point. A tank should focus on being a tank, how much damage they do is a secondary consideration that falls lower in the priority list than blocking/parrying. I do also think that depending on the comfort level of the healer(s) involved, keeping the extra HP might be beneficial to them, but that is situational and depends on multiple factors.

VIT may be more necessary during progression for Alexander (hopefully), but as you get more gear VIT will start losing it's importance and the focus will shift to STR yet again. The problem with the Coils was that HP checks were so very low that you could really get away with STR accessories, or at least crafted, during early progression.

I do hope they change Parry to be more beneficial... it'd be nice to have an actual tank stat and not something that just kind of fills empty space on gear.

I feel that tanks should have a trait that improves their parry, making it more useful to tanks, perhaps that is something that will come with 3.0 since DRK and WAR don't have a shield to block with, parrying becomes a more important mitigation skill.

Also, if VIT actually helped with resistance to physical status afflictions, it would give a much better reason to stack VIT for tanks since it would obviously be beneficial. On the flip side, MND or INT (perhaps a combination of both) should help resist against non-physical status afflictions.

[VargasVermillion]

Out of curiosity on a raw dummy parsing for the same amount of time do str tanks or healers deal more damage? Single target obviously since aoe is not even a contest.

[PArcher]

But its not wrong to stack full vit and parry many healers want this. This gives you the least possibility to die ever even in farm parties where people will make more mistakes.

Its not *wrong* to stack Vit and parry (well...I'll disagree with Parry since its not nearly as useful as the other secondaries, even SS. Magic damage completely ignores it, for example, so its 100% useless against things that only use magic attacks, like Ultima, any ADS-type node, Ramuh, etc), but its representing a minimum of what you can do. Having one STR accessory won't kill you, even with a newer healer.

Personally, if I don't know the heals I'll settle for a middle ground; my melded accessories. If the healers want more HP, I'll add more. If things go smoothly, I may add more STR.

[Eidolon]

Out of curiosity on a raw dummy parsing for the same amount of time do str tanks or healers deal more damage? Single target obviously since aoe is not even a contest.

For the refernece, I'm using an Augmented Ironworks Sword + Dreadwyrm shield. In my VIT set, I do wear a single piece of slaying gear - my Wrist is Augmented i130 STR, because that keeps me over the accuracy cap in my tank gear.

i130 VIT paladin [Shield Oath]: 233 DPS
i130 STR Paladin [Shield Oath]: 274 DPS

i130 VIT Paladin [Sword Oath]: 327 DPS
i130 STR Paladin [Sword Oath]: 355 DPS

Switching to STR gear in both scenarios increased me by about +40 DPS (Being generous here, my STR set seemed to come in a little low imo and would probably be higher)

Switching to Sword Oath full time meanwhile increased me by nearly 100.



Edit: I will add in, these numbers are very brief encounters - about 1 minute and 30 second encoutners (The timer of Fight or Flight), so the results of the DPS actually come out lower than if I ended it at, say, 2 mintues when I woudl get a second rotation of Fight or Flight in.



For my Warrior, I actually run a full right-side VIT set because I can use my Shiva bracelets of fending (The only tanking bracers I have atm, 'cause I'm lazy and don't wanna farm or waste poetics.) With his Zeta Axe. He's -NEARLY- best in slot but the Axe is specced with a third stat making my set a bit different (And probably slightly lower DPS)

Not using heavy swing or Mercy Stroke. Just regular DPS rotation with a 9 strike on the Berserk ending in an Inner Beast (Unchaining at the start and turning off Defiance during the Pacification period)


i130 WAR VIT set: 359 DPS
i130 WAR STR Set: 432 DPS

So again... about a 60-70~ point difference running my DPS methods. Probably some crits here and there as outliers, since it's a short time period.

[VargasVermillion]

Tank parses

While I appreciate your reply I think you misread my post lol

[Cyrus-Wallace]

o_o ...

It is me or now people are trying to ask others to not DPS as a tank, as it's not it's "role" and viceversa? You can do whatever you want. Do you guys are concerned if people start asking for that? If that's so, why are you concerned? Are you guys mad that other tanks don't care about their DPS output? These are not rhetorical questions, btw.

[nuyu11]

I love seeing people keep on arguing over pointless topic.
The way they said it's like they're is the only who's right and others are wrong and you must agree with them.
While reading all the comments I'm also doing the lodestone check, to see their achievements, minions and mounts.

But it look like most of them log in using their alt I think...
I want to read a solid argument from worthy player, still haven't found any yet.

Nvm... Keep on reading.

[Warlyx]

i130 VIT paladin [Shield Oath]: 233 DPS
i130 STR Paladin [Shield Oath]: 274 DPS

i130 VIT Paladin [Sword Oath]: 327 DPS
i130 STR Paladin [Sword Oath]: 355 DPS

i130 WAR VIT set: 359 DPS
i130 WAR STR Set: 432 DPS

a bit unfair since war has 10% debuff , what about i130 pld sword oath with 10% debuff around 400~ ?

[PArcher]

I love seeing people keep on arguing over pointless topic.
The way they said it's like they're is the only who's right and others are wrong and you must agree with them.
While reading all the comments I'm also doing the lodestone check, to see their achievements, minions and mounts.

But it look like most of them log in using their alt I think...
I want to read a solid argument from worthy player, still haven't found any yet.

Nvm... Keep on reading.

Nice alt you have there, shame I can't check the little thing's gear or achievements...

[Skeith-Adeline]

I love seeing people keep on arguing over pointless topic.
The way they said it's like they're is the only who's right and others are wrong and you must agree with them.
While reading all the comments I'm also doing the lodestone check, to see their achievements, minions and mounts.

But it look like most of them log in using their alt I think...
I want to read a solid argument from worthy player, still haven't found any yet.

Nvm... Keep on reading.

Sorry m'lord, we are not worthy.

ps; that's a mule, not a horse.