Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[Mythrella]

"Bads" is a poor word, but at least its meaning was effective

Actually, it's not a word at all. And "bad" is not a noun anyway. Sorry, pet peeve.

Carry on ♥

[Skeith-Adeline]

2 sides of the story.

Firstly, there is 10% echo. If you aren't meeting DPS checks, then the players need to look in the mirror; however, good tanks do have respectable DPS. No excuse for a tank to be below 200 dps in Final Coil. Again, though, 10%. It is hardly needed at all anymore.

[PArcher]

I see, and just who do you think you are to decide what another player thinks is just fine for their HP? Many tanks I know prefer to play in a conservative manner to ensure that there are margins for error, a PLD with a larger HP pool than required is a PLD that allows the healer more time and room for maneuver when it comes to healing everyone else and dodging.

The world does not revolve around DPS.

One other thing to add to this, the healers may not be comfortable with tanks with lower HP, or want the HP cushion just in case something goes wrong. If I get a healer who wants me with more HP because they're newer and don't want to be pressured such, so be it; I'd rather be alive than have a healer panic and accidentally let me die

No matter what a tank thinks, we are at the mercy of our healers, just as healers are at our mercy.

[kyuven]

I see, and just who do you think you are to decide what another player thinks is just fine for their HP? Many tanks I know prefer to play in a conservative manner to ensure that there are margins for error, a PLD with a larger HP pool than required is a PLD that allows the healer more time and room for maneuver when it comes to healing everyone else and dodging.

The world does not revolve around DPS.

While i agree on most of your points, such as expectations, a PLD with 10.5k HP isn't gearing themselves correctly.
There's a certain point where having more HP isn't necessarily a good thing. People forget that STR does more than just contribute to damage, after all.
To put it another way, STR does two things: helps mitigation and helps DPS. VIT does one thing: HP.
By using SOME STR, not only are you helping the group as a whole by dealing more damage, you're also mitigating damage rather than absorbing it, which means you require less healing overall. Granted this is based off parry and block mitigation, but it's still SOMETHING rather than having a over large HP pool.
Which plays into another point about gearing *correctly*. iLevel is an entry fee, not a measure of actual ability. There's a huge benefit to using certain pieces of gear over others. Tanks are interesting in this case as they have a LOT of options and tweaks them can make to their "loadout," especially for their jewelry.

[PArcher]

About proper tank gearing: don't forget most people stack their main stat, which is Vit for tanks, equipping all their jobvs accessories as they can. Most tanks just don't know better than stacking fending. Educate them, tell them they can do better. Many will be glad to take your advice (assuming you don't tell them in a condescending mannor). If they don't, then they are bad. But being ignorant of their potential doesn't make them a bad player in and of itself.

Our new pld was a vit-stacking, parry build pld; he genuinely thought that's what he was supposed to be doing. He has str accessories on now and is working to get the dps-based dreadwyrm gear he passed over before.

[SirTaint]

About proper tank gearing: don't forget most people stack their main stat, which is Vit for tanks, equipping all their jobvs accessories as they can. Most tanks just don't know better than stacking fending. Educate them, tell them they can do better. Many will be glad to take your advice (assuming you don't tell them in a condescending mannor). If they don't, then they are bad. But being ignorant of their potential doesn't make them a bad player in and of itself.

Our new pld was a vit-stacking, parry build pld; he genuinely thought that's what he was supposed to be doing. He has str accessories on now and is working to get the dps-based dreadwyrm gear he passed over before.

That's a great point.

I'm always shy to correct people in game. People get very defensive, correct or not.

[myahele]

Hopefully SE will make Parry and Vit actually needed for endgame content to avoid this mess

[SpookyGhost]

Hopefully SE will make Parry and Vit actually needed for endgage content to avoid this mess

Well... sort of.

VIT may be more necessary during progression for Alexander (hopefully), but as you get more gear VIT will start losing it's importance and the focus will shift to STR yet again. The problem with the Coils was that HP checks were so very low that you could really get away with STR accessories, or at least crafted, during early progression.

I do hope they change Parry to be more beneficial... it'd be nice to have an actual tank stat and not something that just kind of fills empty space on gear.

[KaijinRhada]

I'm a bit more surprised to see the expectation in PF rather than a set group, but I don't see anything wrong with it; it's their PF so their rules (now if they had not forewarned people of this expectation, that's another story). While I don't raid in this game, because of various circumstances, I did do a lot of high tier raiding in WoW as MT, OT, and occasionally as DPS, and tank DPS does have an impact. If they want to burn through content, it makes sense to max your DPS where possible. Expecting that from PuGs though is definitely a situation of "your mileage may vary." They could be in for a long wait for a tank if they're straight up PuGing them with those parameters in mind, or they may luck out.

That's a great point.

I'm always shy to correct people in game. People get very defensive, correct or not.

I'm also familiar with this. It's the nature of telling people via text since it's hard for many to be able to tell what tone is being used. Hell, people can get defensive even with voice. I don't expect others to min/max for reasons of they are either comfortable where they are or they don't know to push their boundaries, but I also will help where possible. I will generally gauge people individually with small talk and go from there, because good advice or not, it's up to them to take it and some times they don't want to hear it. Then there's also the fact that it may fit their groups needs and that's not information that we are privy on.

I, personally, am one to push it to the limit once I am familiar with things, and that expectation falls out the window when I am faced with PuGs. My expectation for top tier play only happens when I am with like-minded individuals, not with my casual-playing friends or with PuGs (because it's not like I know how they play) and the varying levels of expectation carried on to this game. I will patiently stay and do my part and if people are struggling, I encourage them and offer advice in a friendly manner. Just like way back when agility became king for feral druids in WoW and I still saw a lot stack stam as bear when they are already beyond their necessary EH; some people either play it safe or don't know any better. I would make a mention of it the variation of gear choices and gauge their response. If it starts becoming an issue for the group, I'll go from there and give advice as necessary.

[Zumi]

About proper tank gearing: don't forget most people stack their main stat, which is Vit for tanks, equipping all their jobvs accessories as they can. Most tanks just don't know better than stacking fending. Educate them, tell them they can do better. Many will be glad to take your advice (assuming you don't tell them in a condescending mannor). If they don't, then they are bad. But being ignorant of their potential doesn't make them a bad player in and of itself.

Our new pld was a vit-stacking, parry build pld; he genuinely thought that's what he was supposed to be doing. He has str accessories on now and is working to get the dps-based dreadwyrm gear he passed over before.

But its not wrong to stack full vit and parry many healers want this. This gives you the least possibility to die ever even in farm parties where people will make more mistakes.