Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[Elusana_Celah]

Yeah well maintaining optimal DPS in groups as a tank also depends on how freed up the healers are. I mean if you got people dying to megaflares even occasionally or just people taking unnecessary damage then that's a DPS loss for the tank because tank's gotta mitigate with stances due to healers being too busy trying to crutch the raid. PUGs are all unknown players who may not perform necessary enough for the tanks to hit that optimal DPS. The more distracted healers are having to heal / ress unnecessarily the more tanks have to mitigate so I would say to achieve those 'excellent' or even 'average' numbers the tank's performance is at the mercy to the rest of the party's performance.

With that in mind, is judging tank DPS in PUG groups reasonable?

[karateorangutang]

I guess my beef with it is... I don't have a freaking clue what my DPS is.

So yeah... when I get a way on my PS4 to calculate it out then i'll worry about it.

Until then i'll make my own PUGs and get the same results.

[SirTaint]

With that in mind, is judging tank DPS in PUG groups reasonable?

The average numbers are zzzz range. Doing your rotation in the proper stance. Even excellent gives a ton of room to play safely and can be done with average healers. I toned the DPS
numbers way down. As stated in the beginning, Excellent Raiders numbers can reach much higher DPS. (450 MTing T10 for example, OTs doing 400+ in T13 etc)

Bad tanks don't even factor in their healers and they are the majority. I did T10 spam on Thursday night with my raid healers (WHM/SCH) I was on BRD. They can handle both tanks in DPS stances and full STR sets no problem. Our PLD was doing sub 190 and our OT WAR was hovering in the 220 range. (no tank swaps) That's a combined ~410 when on average should have been ~600 and with 2 pro healers should have been closer to 800.

400 DPS difference! Over the course of 7 minutes (average PUG T10 kill) that is 170,000 damage.

Good tanks will know how to maximize their DPS (gear/rotation/stance) with their healers and since most PUGs do more then one run there is time to figure out how to best compliment the party.

[Zanmato]

Has this always been a thing? I've been seeing party finders like, "No low DPS / this includes tanks!" And my friend was thrown out of a T12 farm as warrior for not DPSing high enough and the guy apparently blacklisted him from his farms over it.

I mean I main white mage so I don't know but it seems kinda I dunno... unreasonable to care about a tank's DPS in a pickup farm group maybe? I mean I never had trouble getting 4 and close to 3 bennus in T12 farms with tanks doing typical tank DPS so I dunno how necessary this is at all.

If I'm going tank I just want to worry about boss / add positioning, cooldown use and avoiding mechanics that are meant to be dodged as well as survivability to free up healers more rather than what my parse numbers look like. But different strokes for different folks ya know?

Yes I am aware that I can simply 'not join' a party finder with 'rules' I do not agree with. I don't jump over to the forums to write a post like this unless I want to feel out the general community opinions on these kinds of requirements. I don't and never plan to argue with someone over party finder requirements I just don't join them, but I still take interest in community opinions so this post was made, thank you.

#JustParserThings

Never heard of such nonsense before. Sure, tanks should do decent DPS, but for crying out loud, they are tanks. Just ignore those parties.

[SirTaint]

I guess my beef with it is... I don't have a freaking clue what my DPS is.

So yeah... when I get a way on my PS4 to calculate it out then i'll worry about it.

Until then i'll make my own PUGs and get the same results.

That is exactly why the game needs a parser. Bads have no idea how bad they are.

My personal opinion would be a personal parser, not a group one.

[Elusana_Celah]

words

I understand your point completely but I don't particularly place too much faith on people when I join a pug group. I was healing a T12 a few days ago where this paladin was 150% strength and sword oath and I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to deal with brand mechanic in phase 2 and keep that tank alive I saw the phoenix shaving 15-25% hp off with auto attacks of course he was mitigating the revelations which worked out but I ended up switching out of healer and going to monk because I was tired of overworking like that to heal that tank. I let someone else do it lol. We got some kills in like this.

Granted, he was parsing 450-500 which was really good bravo to him but I don't want to work that much harder just to farm with pugs... sadly when I switched to monk when our dragoon left and the tank left too. We ended up taking down the boss faster with our new tank who was all fending because my monk parses 600-620 lol (I replaced someone who was parsing 390 though).

[Cyrus-Wallace]

Personal experiences aside, because these might vary a lot and it's not an absolute basis for an opinion.

How many groups do you see in PF actually requesting for this? I don't really think this is a thing. Again, I come from Gilgamesh, one of the top raiding servers, and I never heard of it. Pretty sure they're a minority, so nothing to be concerned about, if that even concerns you. They want someone that could adapt to their playstyle, it's their choice. If they don't get that group filled in 2 minutes but in 20 minutes because of that requirement, that's none of our business. I'm sure there're plenty of super confident tanks that will accept it and join them. If that's an "OK" requirement, yes, it is. Why should we judge other's playstyle? They're not forcing you to join these PF, they invite people with that requirement. I don't think it's silly or a nonsense at all... why would it be?

But so far, we're discussing if it's okay for a tank to increase their DPS or not during raid time. Some groups have a good synergy with these builds and they can heal/DPS just okay, like my group for example (Even though I know that personal experiences are somewhat unique and may vary a lot as I said) since I tank T13 with full slaying and I never go below the 50% of my HP during Flatten/Ahk Morn. Having my SCH DPSing almost full time and my WHM sneaking Aeros and Stones from time to time. In pugs I do agree it's super sensitve, but there's when you talk to this person, if you're having issues with him and tell him they're not doing any good for healers, for example. If they are not adapting themselves to your playstyle, you're super free to rep them.

[Izsha]

Answer to every 'I saw a PF message that hurt my feelings!' thread.

It's their PF. They can do what they want. You want a PF the way you like it, make your own.

Seriously.

10 pages fighting over whats 'acceptable' to put in a PF box?Anyone can type whatever the F they want in the PF box. Get over it. Don't like it? Make your own and quit bitching on the forums about it.

[Elusana_Celah]

Answer to every 'I saw a PF message that hurt my feelings!' thread.

It's their PF. They can do what they want. You want a PF the way you like it, make your own.

Seriously.

Anyone can type whatever the F they want in the PF box. Get over it. Don't like it? Make your own and quit bitching on the forums about it.

Your reply just made me chuckle a hearty chuckle. Thank you for your fine display sir.

You can take your own advice and if there are threads on the forum that bother you, get over it. People here can post what they want.

[Kosmos992k]

Someone earlier in the thread said something that is fundamentally true for me and many players. This type of additional expectation on tanks (and healers) to do extra DPS or else in end-game is precisely the reason so many people avoid end-game and the end-game community like it's the black death on steroids.

I won't win any awards for DPS numbers with my gear, but I can tank decently, perhaps well. Any DD player demanding I increase my DPS had better bloody well be executing their job perfectly and using every possible way to increase their DPS before they demand that tanks or healers take up the slack for them.

While we're at it, those same damage dealers better not be taking any unnecessary damage. In case you guys didn't know, you're supposed to dodge AoE attacks...Oh, and by the way, you can maintain your peak DPS even if the tank has to move to dodge an attack, but it requires that you unbolt your feet from the ground first. Or is the need for you to reposition occasionally just too much for you to cope with? Honestly, it's pretty poor when damage dealers with positional requirements refuse to move with the flow of the fight and complain when forced to do so.

If you're going to demand tanks up their DPS, I presume you're also demanding that healers do more DPS? Well, just so you know, healers get really pissed off when damage dealers who demand that the healers DPS, stand in pools of hurt instead of dodging them, because it means they have to expend more MP and time healing you.

Point being, you can't have it both ways. We can all put demands on other roles in a fight, but first and foremost we need to get our roles right, consistently, before we are in any position to ask more of others.

Fundamentally, all content goes faster if everyone executes their job correctly. But, kicking tanks (or healers) for not also being a DPS machine is simply asinine.

That is exactly why the game needs a parser. Bads have no idea how bad they are.

My personal opinion would be a personal parser, not a group one.

I take it you're one of the 'goods' then?

'Bads'

What a stupidly pejorative term for other players that is. I loathe seeing people using it at all, but especially in the way you have. The last thing this game needs is a parser. It would be used negatively all the time - by people like yourself - and drive many more players away from the game.