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  1. #51
    Player
    Zamii's Avatar
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    Mar 2014
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    435
    Character
    Zami Terrechant
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatshine View Post
    Most Summoners have no clue how to properly AOE. The day you see a SMN Dots > Bane + Aerial Slash > Miasma II > Blizzard 2 spam in a dungeon, that's the moment you see one of the best Summoners around. Hell, add Rouse/Spur, Aerial Blast, and Fester between GCD abilities, and watch mobs melt. BLM may be king, but most are ignorant with SMN.
    summoner AOE is a little more complicated than that, first off, you wont use fester because you will need your aetherflow stacks for bane, maybe if all the mobs are about to die then sure, but most of the time you'll want to keep them.
    Also, blizz II spam is only good against 4 or less enemies, any more and you'll need to be applying dots to a new group to continue to bane.
    also, your priority after bane should be to shadowflare, not miasma II
    (0)

  2. #52
    Player
    Fatshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    215
    Character
    Magnus Valerius
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamii View Post
    summoner AOE is a little more complicated than that, first off, you wont use fester because you will need your aetherflow stacks for bane, maybe if all the mobs are about to die then sure, but most of the time you'll want to keep them.
    Also, blizz II spam is only good against 4 or less enemies, any more and you'll need to be applying dots to a new group to continue to bane.
    also, your priority after bane should be to shadowflare, not miasma II
    Okay perhaps I should elaborate:

    Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Miasma II + Contagion> Swiftcast > Bane + Aerial Slash > Shadowflare > Rouse > Blizzard II > Spur > Blizzard II > Enkindle > Blizzard II > Fester (mob with most HP) > Blizzard II Spam.

    That is the full AOE rotation. To elaborate even further. Blizzard II on 3+ mobs, not 4 or less because the time you need to refresh dots, mobs are either dead or almost dead, so you finish them off with Ruin II. This doesn't come into account other DPS doing their thing. No Raging Strikes or Swiftcast? Then Shadowflare first. No contagion? Watch timers as you Blizzard II spam. Don't have enough Aetherflow stacks? Then don't Fester and save for Bane. Have enough stacks? Is Aetherflow off cool down? Then you can afford Fester. So yeah, I know what I'm talking about. There are a million things a Summoner has to think about when he/she does things whether it's AOE or single target.
    (2)
    Last edited by Fatshine; 05-11-2015 at 02:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhex View Post
    Why would you pay for a game, to pay an RMT, to pay other players to play the game for you?

  3. #53
    Player
    Zamii's Avatar
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    Mar 2014
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    435
    Character
    Zami Terrechant
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatshine View Post
    Okay perhaps I should elaborate:

    Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Swiftcast > Miasma II + Contagion> Bane + Aerial Slash > Shadowflare > Rouse > Blizzard II > Spur > Blizzard II > Enkindle > Blizzard II > Fester (mob with most HP) > Blizzard II Spam.
    theres a few problems with all that but i dont really feel like correcting you with a full reasoning behind each problem, so intead i'll just point out the one problem that stands out so much i had to reply.
    Miasma II is instant cast, do NOT swiftcast it.
    (2)

  4. #54
    Player
    Fatshine's Avatar
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    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    215
    Character
    Magnus Valerius
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamii View Post
    theres a few problems with all that but i dont really feel like correcting you with a full reasoning behind each problem, so intead i'll just point out the one problem that stands out so much i had to reply.
    Miasma II is instant cast, do NOT swiftcast it.
    At first I said.....what? Then realized I had a typo in it's placement. Other than that, please, correct me with the "problems".
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhex View Post
    Why would you pay for a game, to pay an RMT, to pay other players to play the game for you?

  5. #55
    Player
    Zamii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    435
    Character
    Zami Terrechant
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatshine View Post
    At first I said.....what? Then realized I had a typo in it's placement. Other than that, please, correct me with the "problems".
    rouse/spur can and should be on the same oGCD, it will take some practice to get consistent at it but they can be chained together almost instantly if done right.

    with 5+ mobs you will need to refresh dots on the first pack almost immediate after you finished bane on the second pack, hence why i said you should only blizz spam on 4 or less mobs, you might be able to fit in a 1 or 2 here and there, but certainly not spam. although as you said it really does matter how how much hp they have, but first thing that comes to mind for me is when turn 4 was actually progression content, i suppose turn 13 (before echo) is similar during adds phase in some regard.

    the cooldown use would be on a per case basis, so i wont go into it to much, but most of the time its better to save your raging strikes in particular for something else, yes it might inflate your dps more using it there, but it doesnt change the fact that the increased dps normally doesn't have as much of an effect as what it would hitting stricktly the boss for example.

    aerial slash you have considered a GCD move by the looks of it to, which of course its not, but more importantly this should come after the rouse + spur.

    dont finish off a mob with ruin II simply to finish it off in an aoe situation, continue to aoe, it will be caught in the aoe and killed accordingly.
    (0)

  6. #56
    Player
    Fatshine's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    Ul'dah
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    215
    Character
    Magnus Valerius
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamii View Post
    rouse/spur can and should be on the same oGCD, it will take some practice to get consistent at it but they can be chained together almost instantly if done right.

    with 5+ mobs you will need to refresh dots on the first pack almost immediate after you finished bane on the second pack, hence why i said you should only blizz spam on 4 or less mobs, you might be able to fit in a 1 or 2 here and there, but certainly not spam. although as you said it really does matter how how much hp they have, but first thing that comes to mind for me is when turn 4 was actually progression content, I suppose turn 13 (before echo) is similar during adds phase in some regard.

    the cooldown use would be on a per case basis, so i wont go into it to much, but most of the time its better to save your raging strikes in particular for something else, yes it might inflate your dps more using it there, but it doesnt change the fact that the increased dps normally doesn't have as much of an effect as what it woufasterting stricktly the boss for example.

    aerial slash you have considered a GCD move by the looks of it to, which of course its not, but more importantly this should come after the rouse + spur.

    dont finish off a mob with ruin II simply to finish it off in an aoe situation, continue to aoe, it will be caught in the aoe and killed accordingly.
    Umm, no. Aerial Slash is obviously not a GCD. Same with every single pet action. Bane + Aerial slash means, Aerial Slash should be macro'd on to Bane. This means immediately after you Bane, Garuda will use Aerial Slash for an enhanced AOE attack. Also why would I want to use Spur/Rouse together? If I can fit a Blizzard II (or Ruin II) in between for added DPS? The only reason I would do that is if I messed up my rotation somewhere and want to get the second Fester out before the Raging Strikes timer is done on single target. Or to save mp by using less Ruin II over the course of a long fight. Also, yes, spam Blizzard II. That is why I previously mentioned various scenarios where things are done differently. If you have 5+ mobs, look for the add that is closer to the group that doesn't have dots because of the 3 mob Bane limit, and Bane one that does nearest to it. You do know that Bane has a chance to refresh dot timers on new mobs...right? Meaning less dot refresh more Blizzard II spam? Save Raging Strikes? Why would I save Raging Strikes in a dungeon? The more damage you deal the faster a dungeon is done. By the time you reach the last boss, Raging Strikes will be up. In raid content, then yes save Raging Strikes. For example if I have Raging Strikes during DB in T13, I wait until Storm spawns until I use it. As for Ruin II, yes, use it if a mob has what...3% HP left? Unless you use Ruin I and it dies midcast interrupting you making Ruin I pointless. Finally elaborate on Turn 4? I don't know why you would mention it without giving insight as to why.
    (1)
    Last edited by Fatshine; 05-11-2015 at 03:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhex View Post
    Why would you pay for a game, to pay an RMT, to pay other players to play the game for you?

  7. #57
    Player
    Zamii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    435
    Character
    Zami Terrechant
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatshine View Post
    snip
    Turn 4 used to take close to a minute per phase when it was all no echo and all in i70 gear, when refreshing dots was a necessity.

    as for the rest of it, i dont really have the patience to explain every minor detail and go into how each part is a dps/efficiency gain because clearly your not the theorycrafter type.
    (0)

  8. #58
    Player
    Crescent_Dusk's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Crescent Dusk
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatshine View Post
    Umm, no. Bard is still the lowest DPS, and BLM beats SMN if both players are of equal skill. I rarely get beaten by other BLM since getting my Zeta recently and testing my own BiS gear set. To see a Summoner at it's peak is shocking. Just the other night I was at 550+ DPS on T13, equal to the MONK when that should never happen outside AOE.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

    Look at Summoner. Look at Bard. You're wrong.
    (0)

  9. #59
    Player
    Zamii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    435
    Character
    Zami Terrechant
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk View Post
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

    Look at Summoner. Look at Bard. You're wrong.
    normally i would say DnT leaderboards are a good resource, but this is one of the few times its probably more misleading than accurate, DnT players (at least the good ones) dont normally mess around with sub par classes, and it was known fairly early on in 2.4 that summoner wasnt going to be very good due to itemization.
    (0)

  10. #60
    Player
    pandabearcat's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,517
    Character
    Alizebeth Bequin
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Protip: NEVER use Enkindle on a fight with adds on the boss, this includes your opener.

    Even worst case scenario where you have both rouse and spur down, enkindle on just 3 targets is worth 10 minutes of enkindle on single target, with spur/rouse. So yea. Don't...don't use enkindle if there is any chance you can hit multiple enemies. Its literally worth waiting the entire fight to do so.
    (0)

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