DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Welsper59]

Isn't it interesting that once again, you just completed second coil last month and you share the same view as others with similar progress in this thread? Anyway..


Even if parser's were legal that would not give anyone the green light to mock and ridicule player(s). Harassment is still against the ToS.

Please don't resort to constantly mocking progress in a single game. Parsers are not an FFXIV exclusive tool. Unless you know the circumstances of the individual you refer to (in that you know their MMORPG history), it's petty and incredibly stupid to throw **** like that as a mode of defense. Even if it were true that someone does not have the endgame experience from other games to find need to use parsers, the fact you resort to that implies you're out of actual constructive criticisms for the argument. As I'm neutral on the matter, you're simply harming the side arguing for official parser support when you do this. You're giving the impression that everyone on your side is petty like this.

[Massterchef]

Parsers are also against the ToS, but that doesn't stop players from using them (not that I'd argue players shouldn't use parsers but the ToS doesn't stop actions from happening). Which is why you don't see an abundance of misuse with them..

They are widely used for all and any content because people want to see their DPS. The fact that they are against ToS has nothing to do with the fact that there's rarely any misuse of them.

Isn't it interseting that you seem to imply that the viewpoint of everyone else is invalid... hmmm.
Since adding an in game parser actually affects these very people, not just you?

Having lack of perspective certainly doesn't make someone's opinion invalid. That being said, parsers already exist ingame on a wide scale, where are all the toxic effects that these player(s) are mentioning?

Please don't resort to constantly mocking progress in a single game.

It's funny how me pointing out a fact in this case, your current progress as it stands, is somehow mocking your progress. You're welcome to bring your viewpoint into the conversation but if it comes from someone that has little to no experience raiding, using a parser or meeting any DPS checks when content is relevant then it should be pointed out in the context of the conversation.

[SDaemon]

The fact that they are against ToS has nothing to do with the fact that there's rarely any misuse of them.

Actually it does.

It's funny how me pointing out a fact in this case, your current progress as it stands, is somehow mocking your progress. You're welcome to bring your viewpoint into the conversation but if it comes from someone that has little to no experience raiding, using a parser or meeting any DPS checks when content is relevant then it should be pointed out in the context of the conversation.

Except other than their progress in XIV you have no way of knowing. Someone could be purely a crafter in this game, but a hardcore raider in another MMO and you would judge their opinion as lowly as someone who has never raided and used parsers before. That is flawed.

No it doesn't, parsers being against ToS does not deter people from wanting to know their DPS.

Seriously? That wasn't my argument.

Me pointing out your perspective, in this case, not pushing content when relevant has nothing to do with the value of your opinion.

Pointing out my perspective? LOL

[Massterchef]

Actually it does.

Except other than their progress in XIV you have no way of knowing. Someone could be purely a crafter in this game, but a hardcore raiding in another MMO and you would judge their opinion as lowly as anyone else. That is flawed.

No it doesn't, parsers being against ToS does not deter people from wanting to know their DPS.

Me pointing out your perspective, in this case, not pushing content when relevant has nothing to do with the value of your opinion.

[Welsper59]

It's funny how me pointing out a fact in this case, your current progress as it stands, is somehow mocking your progress. You're welcome to bring your viewpoint into the conversation but if it comes from someone that has little to no experience raiding, using a parser or meeting any DPS checks when content is relevant then it should be pointed out in the context of the conversation.

My years of raiding mostly came from Vanilla WoW to Mists and from FFXI (though parsers were not needed there due to how things worked). Vanilla raids. TBC raids. WotLK raids. Heroic mode raids once in a blue moon towards the end of my play. I feel gross for acknowledging you on that though. /sigh It's sad really. You don't even realize what you do in this conversation. I'll just point out a small part of it.

The fact you retort with someones progress as a means to shut them down means you look to diminish their points. Your snide way of saying it means to look down upon that as a tool to do this. So you're using something like that as a means to mock. You don't even understand how the language you speak works. See how mockery functions there by pointing something unnecessary out?

[Massterchef]

The fact you retort with someones progress as a means to shut them down means you look to diminish their points.

How does me pointing out that someone's view on a subject correlates with the fact that they don't push progression when it's relevant, somehow translate into me shutting them down and devaluing their opinion?

[Welsper59]

How does me pointing out that someone's view on a subject correlates with the fact that they don't push progression when it's relevant, somehow translate into me shutting them down and devaluing their opinion?

You're not addressing their concerns, which is the entire point of it. Unnecessarily stating things that have nothing to do with what they're talking about have nothing to do with what they're saying. You're looking to aggravate by stating these unnecessary things so you don't have to deal with it. While it may not be a concern to you, their points certainly hold more weight to them and the devs.

In the case of a point mentioned by you, the PS players lacking a means to parse is one thing, sure... I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. The fact remains though that, like trying to do endgame while max tier and new/relevant requires seeking out others to help you do this, so to should the idea of seeking out others to help you perform better. It's a minor handicap, at worst, for a PS player. It's something within their power to EASILY do when it comes to the context of endgame.

[Massterchef]

You're not addressing their concerns

I've commented on every point brought up and addressed every concern.. There's nothing wrong with not pushing content. There's also nothing wrong with pointing out that someone does not push content.

[Welsper59]

I've commented on every point brought up. There's nothing wrong with not pushing content. There's also nothing wrong with pointing out that someone does not push content.

Their concerns, in most cases, have nothing to do with the fact that harassment is still against ToS. It's the frequency and the eventual look to have another tool to separate content, in this case, a wall set up by players to do even content like EX fights by having unrealistic expectations (i.e. requiring FCoB gear numbers to do LEX). By frequency, I mean the increased occurrence of douchebags being douchebags.

Just because something is against ToS doesn't mean they won't do it. Case in point: parsers (due to requiring a 3rd party program)... bots, hacks, buying gil, current harassment or violations of safety and privacy, etc. Their side isn't saying that it won't happen anyway, but they're arguing that the frequency is minimal at most right now, and they (along with the devs) like it that way. Speaking from experience that's why, it will happen far more often. Just as you use someones raid progress in this game against them, so too will someone use their actual numbers against them (irrelevant of their potential because of circumstance like gear differences). It's just one more thing to make people hate the game and the community that exists within it. If the devs see fit to ever make it official, then so be it. The side that doesn't like it will have to deal or leave. It's as simple as that. It doesn't change the fact that the devs, as far as we know, still don't want it to be an official thing for similar reasons that the players here are expressing. It also doesn't change the fact that a simple workaround, like the one I suggested, exists and the devs are A-OK with it for the most part.

[Kallera]

How does me pointing out that someone's view on a subject correlates with the fact that they don't push progression when it's relevant, somehow translate into me shutting them down and devaluing their opinion?

Like it or not, the inclusion of a public parser would affect their experience as well when the progression populace decides to go to other content, as well as those that approaching progression content and are sandwiched between the two groups.

The consequences of the parser will be brought out in all dungeon content. And affect each player in turn, regardless if they are intentionally bad.

Even in this thread people are making assumptions of players with just chat. When does "name and shame" become "giving statistics" and letting the chips fall where they may on what value in which dungeon invites consequence?