Nidhogg and the Monetarists

[Cilia]

I agree on what you said, but on the cutesenes with ascians, they event didnt mention nothing about this, like they even didnt care or know about this. Also lahabrea menstions that beacuse of such events he will now try to summons the primals of the north.
Its just I cant find the connection.

Omega. Omega is what ties everything together. With Nanamo dead and the Scions in prison (with Raubahn), as well as the Crystal Braves in their pocket, the Monetarists / Lolorito would have free reign to get their mitts on it. Functionally, Omega is just an augged-up Ultima Weapon... who wanted to use Ultima Weapon to sow discord and chaos?

Lahabrea only hastens his plans due to Elidibus giving him the go-ahead to do so in light of Nabriales' death. While neither make any mention of the plot in Ul'dah, it's possible this was just because everything went (mostly) according to plan. People generally don't talk about things that go according to plan... and even then, there's the possibility there's an as-yet unnamed Ascian behind it. I'm not saying it's impossible the coup in Ul'dah was of Lolorito's own making, but there's too many coincidences for me to truly believe he didn't have outside help, and I can't think of anyone capable of pulling off such an elaborate and far-reaching scheme besides the Ascians.

I do think the Asciens are behind this this. Due to their age (and potentially being one of the 1st life forms in the world) the Celestial Dragons might be aware of the Asciens and in either case I don't think they are being directly manipulated by the Asciens.

However, it's highly probably that the Asciens are directly influencing the Ishgardians...

We know that Asciens can possess bodies, so it's possible that one of his underlings is an Ascien, but it was Lolorito's overall plan. In the end, Asciens want destruction and chaos.

While it seems unlikely the Asians are directly manipulating any of the Celestial Dragons / Wyrmlords, I'm inclined to believe Nidhogg (the current de facto leader of Dravania) is more vulnerable to such manipulation due to his "unfathomable rancor." Iceheart is also essentially acting has his mouthpiece, and I'm fairly inclined to believe she too is being manipulated, directly or otherwise, by the Ascians. We (as players) also know they're manipulating the Holy See. It seems likely to me they're playing all the sides to cause as much death and strife as possible, which certainly fits their MO.

The other Celestial Dragons / Wyrmlords haven't been mentioned in-story yet, with the possible exception of Bahamut, so it's possible they aren't being manipulated by the Ascians and we only have to fight them because they're on Nidhogg's side (if we have to fight them at all).

+99.9% sure Lolorito either is, is being possessed by, or has contact with an Ascian. The creepy way the Handmaiden appeared as if from nowhere during that one "The Parting Glass" scene is a dead giveaway.

[Nalien]

Omega. Omega is what ties everything together. With Nanamo dead and the Scions in prison (with Raubahn), as well as the Crystal Braves in their pocket, the Monetarists / Lolorito now have free reign to get their mitts on it.

Do they?

The land Omega is buried in is still disputed territory. The Monetarists would either have to still get the Eorzean Alliance to let them annex the area, or they could just outright disregard that and turn Frontlines from a play-war into a real one.

[Cilia]

The problem with that assumption is that they never explicitly showed the Ascians with any of the Monetarists, unlike with the XIVth Legion commanders. That's why I bring up Nidhogg, because there was a more visible link between him and the Monetarists.

Though it isn't explicit, that's why I think for myself instead of just taking everything shown at face value. There's only one group whose endgame plays into this, and I'm pretty sure a shrewd merchant wouldn't need to resort to a gigantic war machine.

I actually find it very possible that the attack on Ishgard that drew Aymeric was just a coincidence... The Dravanian attack on Ishgard had just begun, it is entirely likely that a second wave would occur and what better time to attack than when a high ranking member of Ishgards military is away on a diplomatic meeting?

Although really, did Aymeric even need to be removed? That could have just been a happy coincidence rather than part of the plan...

It is possible the Dravanian attack was coincidental, but the timing is too perfect for me to think so. Either way, Teledji getting Aymeric out the door before revealing the Sultana's death was a very calculated move; his accusation was that your endgame was to have Ishgard invade the rest of Eorzea, which Aymeric himself would denounce as a load in an instant. It also implies Ishgard is still instrumental to their plans in some way, and using this accusation would seriously piss them off.

Do they?

The land Omega is buried in is still disputed territory. The Monetarists would either have to still get the Eorzean Alliance to let them annex the area, or they could just outright disregard that and turn Frontlines from a play-war into a real one.

Yeah, they pretty much do. The Crystal Braves are, on paper, a neutral organization, and neither Gridania nor Limsa can declare war on Ul'dah for appearances' sake. If they did and a war actually broke out, Garlemald would pounce in an instant. The Braves' support gives them authority in Mor Dhona. We've yet to see how this changes politics in the region and Frontlines will remain a play war for gameplay purposes, but... yeah.

[RomildaRayne]

I don't think Lolorito is working with Dravanians or even Ascians, at least not directly. Lolorito once stated that his company did trade with the Garlean Empire before it became obvious they wouldn't settle for anything less than complete conquest of Eorzea but, given his personality, I don't believe him. He's a pragmatic backstabber, he wouldn't break off trade so easily - especially when he can just do it underground rather than overtly - and he wouldn't be so loyal to the other city-states that putting Ul'dah on the side of Garlemald would be beyond his scope. So long as he can arrange things to keep himself above others in terms of power and wealth, I wouldn't even put him above attempting to sell all of Ul'dah to them, subjugating the city-state through use of his followers in the Crystal Braves and Brass Blades.

[Cilia]

I don't think Lolorito is working with Dravanians or even Ascians, at least not directly. Lolorito once stated that his company did trade with the Garlean Empire before it became obvious they wouldn't settle for anything less than complete conquest of Eorzea but, given his personality, I don't believe him... I wouldn't even put him above attempting to sell all of Ul'dah to them, subjugating the city-state through use of his followers in the Crystal Braves and Brass Blades.

I can't find the exact dialogue, but if I recall right Lolorito only cut off his ties with the Garleans when they proved bent on the complete eradication of Eorzea - through Meteor - not when they declared their intent to conquer the region.

While Lolorito clearly has no problem dealing with the Garleans, I highly doubt he'd outright sell Ul'dah to them. That would leave him nothing more than a figurehead, and even if he were able to broker a deal to remain in control of Ul'dah he'd still be under the Imperials' thumb. He wants freedom, independence, the power to be his own master unshackled by the Royalists' meddling - not the puppet of another master.

[Bfmusashi]

... nah, it's just a coincidence.

Unfortunately, the puppets are many. We'd need to be smart enough to know to cut their strings and be capable of doing so. Unfortunately most everyone but the villains seem to be as smart as a box of rocks, and we have to play a straight hero. If we could stop playing their game it'd be easy... but we can't proactively fight them, and we just lost a game within the game. Hopefully we do better in Heavensward.

You know, when the Who you're referring to are invisible malefactors that occasionally possess people's bodies while committing to a massive conspiracy you sound like a nutter.

[KarstenS]

Iceheart is also essentially acting has his mouthpiece, and I'm fairly inclined to believe she too is being manipulated, directly or otherwise, by the Ascians.

That piece is very clear. In the cutscene in northern Thanalan, where the WoL is talking with Moenbryda (Quest), Nabriales directly states that he was the one, who helped Iceheart to get Shiva. He doesn't call names,but it is very clear, that only Iceheart could be meant with it.

However, it's highly probably that the Asciens are directly influencing the Ishgardians.

This is also very clear.

2 pics taken from the finishing cutscene of the quest Brave New Companions.

[Cilia]

You know, when the Who you're referring to are invisible malefactors that occasionally possess people's bodies while committing to a massive conspiracy you sound like a nutter.

Point taken, but even though Kan-E-Senna doesn't have the Echo she was able to perceive Lahabrea at the Battle of Cartenau. I'm sure she'd listen if we elaborated upon that.

As for the rest, yeah, we'd just look like a nutcase. We could still act in ways that didn't play into the Ascians' hands though, even without explaining anything to anyone.

[Fenral]

As for the rest, yeah, we'd just look like a nutcase. We could still act in ways that didn't play into the Ascians' hands though, even without explaining anything to anyone.

That's unlikely. We've always been prone to act in the most idealistic way possible and simply hope for the best without much thought towards possible negative repercussions. For all we know, it's the Ascians themselves making sure certain paths seem the most desirable. That is how ancient conspiracies work, after all, and they've been at it for a long time, rather, for all of time.

[Echofalls]

That's unlikely. We've always been prone to act in the most idealistic way possible and simply hope for the best without much thought towards possible negative repercussions. For all we know, it's the Ascians themselves making sure certain paths seem the most desirable. That is how ancient conspiracies work, after all, and they've been at it for a long time, rather, for all of time.

Yes, I quite agree with this: I don't doubt that this plan has been carefully worked out for centuries, maybe more. Everything they're doing now is just watching and making adjustments to compensate for free will. The big stuff has already been done. Now we need to flip the table...