Coeurl & Heavensward

[Truefaith87]

Completely and utterly off topic... But Lulu, your forum siggy has a typo in it.. Unless, of course, you are a "learder" after all, heh.

[Legacy_Wolfwood]

editing for space

[Lulu89]

Completely and utterly off topic... But Lulu, your forum siggy has a typo in it.. Unless, of course, you are a "learder" after all, heh.

It's not a typo, see I may be the founder of my FC but I'm not the only leader in my FC... There are 3 of us and can be many as 5. We all have the same power - one... Selling the FC/ and or House. Just Main one can do that...that's all. I can't give up my rank in the FC to make it 100% pure bc someone has to sit on that leader/founder spot.

The way I have it set up is I'm a the main leader arm... If I was to take time off the game I'd pass that to one of the other "Council" members (Leaders in the FC) .. So im a leader just Head Council Leader atm. ^_^

I can always just put founder/Council, and not leader.. But our council members ARE the FC leaders.

[KobatoAirashii]

I really agree with what you are trying to do, and I'll help out however i can - with teaching people or whatever else.
I made a linkshell for people who wanted to learn back when Second Coil became farmable. I didn't leave it open to just friend or friends of friends. I put messages out in Mor Dhona, Limsa, ect. and a lot of the people in it got help while others didn't. I invited my friends from my static and other linkshells to help out when they could as well. The initial purpose of the linkshell was not to just give these people clears, but to have them be able to complete the fight all the way through with confidence. In other words, we should be able to run the fight with zero communication and they will still know what's going on.

[KobatoAirashii]

continued:


Lately we've been doing this with FCoB (primarily T13) and it's been going fairly well. While there aren't as many people starting parties as we'd like, there are still numerous people willing to join (in confidence) whenever asked. In other words, the number of people who can perform in FCoB has risen pretty substantially, but the number of people running these parties has not.

The SCoB linkshell ended up flopping because people expected me (or my static members) to make parties for them. They never really tried to make parties on their own (which was the second objective of the LS). The confidence never really developed in the player-base. The number of people asking for clears outnumbered those asking to learn fights, after being specifically told the LS was for learning, not clearing. So we stopped doing it altogether (this was after helping a large number of people).

[KobatoAirashii]

Holy poop 1k character limit is bad:

Its hard to help some people when they don't want to help themselves. And in my opinion, that is what is wrong with the server. There are not enough people who want to be leaders. They don't make their own statics because they don't want to commit to a group they're not confident in (and the slightest bit of commitment is apparently terrifying), or they make "farm parties" in PF, hoping people who CAN farm it join (otherwise it flops, which is more often the case).

TL;DR, we have too many indians, and not enough chiefs.

[YuzuxWyrm]

We will stop selling coil to help your cause once we have made 60 million more gil from people buying runs ^_^ good day

[RoyalAtlas]

The caliber and quality of potential end-game players has been brought up multiple times in this thread. Player skill level, feelings of entitlement, laziness, attitudes, learning speeds, hardware limitations, etc. Any one of these issues can make an otherwise decent player an absolute nightmare to play with in endgame content, and I've come across a lot of people who suffer from more than one. We spend a lot of time introducing people to Final Coil and helping them become more comfortable with the content. Many people show great progress and learn quickly. But with some you end up pulling your hair out trying to help them. You put two or three hours into learning a turn with them and for whatever reason they simply cannot make it through the most basic of mechanics. Whatever the issue (maybe they are drunk, maybe they are lagging, who knows!) the process is exhausting and feels like a waste of time. I think that this is the sort of headache a lot of us are hoping to avoid when we set out to achieve this ideal.

There is a lot of help available on this server even if it is hard to access at first. From what I have seen the endgame community here wants people to prove themselves as competent and capable before they offer to help them, because they don't want to waste their time helping people who are not willing to put in the effort. And I don't blame them for that.

We play this game for fun and it is not always fun for endgame players to hand out clears/carries or do learning parties at the 24/7 rate that players new to endgame sometimes seem to require. These experienced endgame players have every right to be frustrated when new players approach them with an entitled idea that it is their job to help them. The thing that these new players need to understand is that most of these endgame players did not make their progress begging others to teach them. If help was offered it was absolutely appreciated. But on their own time they put blood, sweat, and tears into making the progress that they did. They raided 4+ days per week for hours each day. They read guides and watched videos (if they even existed when they started running the content). They spent millions of gil buying gear and materia to maximize every ounce of their classes potential. Outside of raid they spent hours on dummies trying to perfect every aspect of their chosen class. Clearing that content was their mission, it was their job, and they worked HARD for it. They made sacrifices for it. They earned it.

If new players aren’t going to commit themselves to endgame, why should endgame players commit themselves to them? That’s why our version of doing what is being discussed here is to start new statics, and have people working in a group of 8 with others on their level (be it T5, T9, or T10-13) to learn the content as a group. We’ll watch them stream their fights on Twitch or we’ll sometimes send one or two experienced veterans in with them to help them along. We make sure everyone gets involved on voice chat so that they can work together in real time, and then they can really get a taste of what it’s like. If they can’t treat endgame with the respect it deserves and put time and effort into grinding out their own progress, I don’t know if they really belong there in the first place. When people raid together like that you get to see who is truly committed and who isn’t really into it. Those who fall behind and aren’t willing to put in the effort end up getting replaced so that new people can have a chance.

With the small pool of players actually available to teach, how do we avoid burnout here? In an unofficial way the community has its own screening process to prevent this. By doing what I mentioned above and choosing to help those who have begun to prove themselves, they reward those who respect the struggle and introduce people to endgame who seem willing to earn it.

Now the endgame community is planning to reach out to the rest of the community and that takes away our natural filtering process. I’m suggesting that in order to ease tensions and put some of our fears to rest we come up with an official screening process when it comes to those we help here. Let’s tell them what we’d like them to do to prove to us that they are ready and willing to take endgame seriously, so that we don’t feel like we are just carrying them. After all, when you help people who aren’t willing to help themselves it can make you feel unappreciated and resentful.

If others think a basic screening process of this sort would be beneficial to this plan, I would love to hear some suggestions for what it should entail. Here are some suggestions of my own.

Doing Dailies / Weeklies

If people are undergeared for content and aren’t putting the minimal amount of effort required into getting their 450 Poetics every week, that causes me to think negatively about their ability to commit to this game in a substantial way. If people are playing this game daily and still failing to cap their poes and get their weekly tower freebies I feel that they should reconsider their priorities before trying to tackle endgame. If you are trying to keep up in a competitive raid environment capping your poetics and using them to get the best pieces for your MAIN class is imperative. I see people blowing half their poes on alts because they assume they will get raid gear later anyway – then they don’t get it for weeks and regret not buying the non-BiS poetics piece for raid.

Finish your Relic or get a Poetics Weapon

If you are unwilling to put in the time to get your Zeta, and you don’t see yourself clearing T13 anytime soon, get the damn i130 poes weapon! Weapon damage is the strongest stat in the game. I feel like this should be common sense by now. It is not acceptable to enter final coil with an Animus weapon. Yes, you may be able to clear with it, but that’s because your counterparts are carrying you. Don’t be selfish and lazy.

Practice the Content on your Own Time

The FC Abel’s Vengeance was talking to me about this one just the other day. Even within their own FC they are unwilling to help people who are not willing to take some initiative. They request that before they help people learn a particular primal or coil turn, that said person uses the Duty Finder to que into the fight over and over again and get as far as they possibly can on their own. This not only familiarizes them with the fight but proves to their mentors that they are willing to dedicate themselves fully to the task at hand and are not just looking for a carry.

[RoyalAtlas]

And as you can see other fc are taking advantage of it already like mr crush leader up there with the famous I'll help you but join my fc first pitch.

Oh, and by the way: Our FC does not require that you join us in order to participate in one of our statics. We help people find groups whether or not they choose to wear our tag. Our goal is to organize people who are willing to try. If they like us and end up wanting to join <Crush>, awesome! If not, that's totally fine. We've got a wonderful crew and are very satisfied with our current membership.

[ClaireAbigail]

Oh, and by the way: Our FC does not require that you join us in order to participate in one of our statics. We help people find groups whether or not they choose to wear our tag. Our goal is to organize people who are willing to try. If they like us and end up wanting to join <Crush>, awesome! If not, that's totally fine. We've got a wonderful crew and are very satisfied with our current membership.

whatever makes you sleep at night bud! I've seen some of your members trying to poach people with fcs already but that's for another time if you insist upon it, talk to me in game. oh and sure you're not recruiting them :P I see it like those annoying recruitment shouts that's been on the increase lately.



Anyways, here's to hoping that your linkshell works out! I took the liberty and brought up the idea or redirected people to this forum post, it was interesting to see the mixed reactions.