Coeurl & Heavensward

[Xellossu]

We should refrain from arguing. We're all here to help.
That being said, some questions i have for you all because i'm unwilling to help those who are unwilling to help others in the future.

To what extent do we help people?- Do we Actively go out and try to convince people not to give up or do we wait for them to come to us?

To what extent does helping become Carrying?

When we teach mechanics, do we tell them what the mechanics do or do we also teach them how to deal with said mechanics?

How do we define parasites, and How do we deal with them?

If we come across a hostile casual, What is the appropriate response of being accused of showing off our E-Peens?

Is it Reasonable to give up on a lost cause? What constitutes a lost cause?

And Finally, how do we convince people to help those who don't care about them?

My post is messy, Just gotta deal, see you guys in the morning.

[FatherTime]

We will stop selling coil to help your cause once we have made 60 million more gil from people buying runs ^_^ good day

I have to agree with Yuzu on this, the only person making any sense on this topic. I mean that gil is so good!!! ^_^

[gorezilla1]

snip

Nice questions. I would assume the answer to most of them lies within each person’s prerogative. Since none of this will be policed, and we are simply making sure that we can all make meaningful contributions to the server, it boils down to what each person can do and how much time said person can afford at that moment. Let's not forget that time is a very precious resource.

That said, to give a less vague answer I would say (and these are my opinions):

1. When it comes to helping people there shouldn't be a limit for those actively seeking help. I would be weird going around giving pep talks a trying to boost the morale of random strangers but this shouldn't be a problem for the people around you like fc mates. To those you aren't acquainted with, who perhaps are expressing Dejection in say; shout or yell chat, simply letting them know it gets better or that it takes time can make a big difference. However, I really don't see myself telling people it'll get better. My point is that if someone if expressing discontent, they are very likely looking for someone to make them feel better. Granted, I'd probably ignore these kinds of comments.

2. Helping becomes carrying when the assisted party has neither the aptitude, nor desire, or a weird combination of both, to make a significant contribution to a fight.

3. Usually, the point of watching videos is so that people know what mechanics do, and gain some mild insight into navigating them. If I joined a learning party, I would definitely do my very best to help people learn how to handle those mechanics. There’s no point in going into a learning party and not sharing opinion if it can help people make progress.

4. I'm not sure what you mean by parasite. If you mean people who join farm parties looking for a clear, or those or join clear parties instead of learning ones when they have 0 experience, I tend to kick them. The reason is that I find these actions to be dishonest. I have put up farm parties and been asked by people if they could join. They usually say something along the lines of I've been down to 5% etc. This is usually fine with me, but I consult the rest of the party. If however, a person cannot make that known before joining, then all I see is a liar and I kick liars.

5. People can be hostile, regardless of playstyle. Wether casual, or hard-core or mid-range, there are some people who simply won’t take your advice. However, you cannot forcefully persuade people to do things differently. If you are truly not smacking people with your e-peen, I would recommend recusing yourself from the situation. Unfortunately, some people actually enjoy skewering people with their epeen. This really isn’t cool. And it’s up to each of us to find that line and never step over it.

6. The phrase ”Lost Cause” is so ambiguous. What however isn’t, is the moment you have marked someone AS a lost cause. I would absolutely recommend you give up that instant. This is because If I mark someone as a lost cause, I have already given up on them. Nothing positive will come from that exchange. What you shouldn’t do however, is convince others to abandon that same person. You can share some of your misgivings with you compatriots which is expected, but to prevent them from getting help would be unfair seeing as you alone are making that judgement and wielding your influence to make someone else miserable.

I have a brief anecdote. I will use Skun Lectro as an example. The purpose of this isn’t to mock him. It’s actually the opposite. I remember back in 2.1, people seemed to hate this guy. He was called a lost cause as well. If people joined a pf and saw him, they’d leave. Eventually, I wrote him off as well and that was a terrible thing to do. However, when the Kirin was released, I formed a Titan Ex farm and we had about 5 people when he joined. 2 people left because I didn’t kick him. and another person urged me to kick him. I didn’t want to look like a jerk so I didn’t kick him. When we had a full party, we cleared the fight over 10 times, maybe close to 20 times, I don’t remember. What I do remember is that we wiped only once and it wasn’t his fault. And that aside from that one wipe, he and one other person were the only people who never died to any mechanic. We overlords, with our FCoB experience, made mistakes and found ourselves (me included) to a burden to the party at one time or another, but the person we mocked stood as an example of flawlessness.

I urge you all to think very carefully before slandering people with devastating labels such as “lost cause.”

7. When it comes to helping people, you have to remember that we aren’t saints. You can’t really expect people to assist people they dislike. But the good thing about this game is that it’s an Mmo. Which means there are other people who can help. If you can’t find someone else at that time, you can simply try at a different time.

Now again, these are examples of what I would idealistically do. What you find acceptable could be different.

[LhoirMoshanti]

We will stop selling coil to help your cause once we have made 60 million more gil from people buying runs ^_^ good day

YUZU pls.
As a seller on both servers I'm on, I'm not gonna say I'll ever stop selling runs. Some people just want the gear, that's their idea of fun and don't won't to work for it, more power to them ; more gil to us.

But anyway, I have a decked out scholar still on Coeurl still [Kalli moshanti] and am almost always up to help people out when I'm on, just toss me a tell.

Not gonna lie however, Coeurl is dead endgame wise.

[KobatoAirashii]

There is no reason to stop selling. Other people on other servers wont stop. Honestly, if people don't care about learning and just want the loot, they will buy it. Them selling runs really wont change anything, if people wanna learn they will learn it. Its as simple as that.

[ClaireAbigail]

Not gonna lie however, Coeurl is dead endgame wise.

Nope, it's not dead, if anything it's more of a secret community now. We recruit people through linkshells, not party finder to avoid trolls/people sneaking in. Right now I can name at least 10 statics on top of my head who can farm t13 even before echo and that doesn't even include the ones who are only upto t12,11 or 10. If you wanna be technical and stuff, here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-embarrassing

According to this all of NA's servers endgame population is dead. A COMPLETELY dead endgame would be zalera where only 2 statics cleared t13.

About selling runs, as long as some people have access to gil(legit or not) there will always be lazy people out there and would rather buy their way in.

[YuzuxWyrm]

Oh i was joking why would we ever stop selling lol

[gorezilla1]

Coeurl is only dead to a few. People have lost many friends and chosen to go find new ones on other servers. We can choose to be 2nd or even 3rd string to strangers. But those who remain are able to accomplish most of what they desired. You yourself cleared savage 6,7, and 9 on coeurl and there are still capable people. But many denizens of our sever only choose to play with people vetted by their friends. And when your friends leave, you have less people to vet others. Instead of transferring, I'm content to stay and make new friends and push forward with even more brazen goals. If there are no good players left, I'll find people with potential and instill in them as much knowledge as I can. And come heavensward, we should get an infusion of new life. If the populations keeps shrinking, they've promised to consider a server merger. But for now, I'm gonna look for more skilled players who continue to surprise me with their skill. Lately, I've been finding quite a bit of them.

[KobatoAirashii]

Yep! I feel the same way Aleister!
A few months back we lost 2 static members, we knew no one at the time to fill those roles, but we went out there to meet people and we were ready to teach anyone that fit in with us anything they needed to know. There are plenty of competent people out there, just have to take the time to find em.
Expansion will bring lots of people and everyone will be back at square one since there is no coil locking them out of the raids. There will be plenty of people looking for groups then. Helping people is fine, I do it every day but going any further then that is just extra in my opinion.

[ClaireAbigail]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...onthly/201504/
The population is not shrinking...a lot of those fcs just popped out of nowhere with new people. Weird thing though is that I don't see a lot of the new people in More Doughnuts...