Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[Purrfectstorm]

Well I'm calling it already in regards to Alexander in 3.0.

According to information being given out, Alexander normal will still be too difficult for some players. There will be posts on the forums complaing about its difficulty. Some players cannot handle turn 5 even now. So, ima gine them in Alexander normal. Yep, nerf alexander posts incoming. Just look back at the "steps is too difficult, NERF NAO" post if you don't believe me.

Alexander savage, same again, there will be posts on the forums demanding it gets nerfed as entitlement will kick in to want the gear from it without the effort. I won't be surprised if some of those are from some who said they wanted Coil nerfed "for the story and not the loot".

I always think asking for nerfs is a strange thing to do. And this is coming from a player who hasn't cleared all content yet. There is absolutely no reason that players need to clear all content right off. Better gear over time acts as a natural nerf in many ways (even if there are still many mechanics where gear doesn't help). One problem this game has right now though is that there's not that much to do until expansion except FCoB. So players who can't clear FCoB don't have a ton of reason to play (unless they're behind).

[Sapphic]

It's entirely possible that he was someone who didn't have the clear but knew more of the fight than you did and was frustrated because you didn't reach the part of the fight he actually needed "training" on.

Still, people in this thread have time and again stated and I feel it should be re-iterated : We don't expect perfection, but we do expect effort and some modicum of improvement. If you did both of these things and the person still left, then I'm very sorry you encountered a jerk when you were trying to do everything right. No one should verbally abuse you either, I'm sorry to hear that and I sincerely hope you reported them.

Or could have been as easily someone who didn't have a clue, didn't read the description and joined expecting a one-shot carry also.

[Sapphic]

I always think asking for nerfs is a strange thing to do. And this is coming from a player who hasn't cleared all content yet. There is absolutely no reason that players need to clear all content right off. Better gear over time acts as a natural nerf in many ways (even if there are still many mechanics where gear doesn't help). One problem this game has right now though is that there's not that much to do until expansion except FCoB. So players who can't clear FCoB don't have a ton of reason to play (unless they're behind).

As has been proven, there are a demographic of players who want the shinies, but are unwilling to put in the effort due to entitlement issues.The belief that they pay the same so they should get the same stuff even when they are unable to or unwilling put in the effort those that will clear it do. Lazy people who expect the world to rotate around them (spoilt kiddies), as opposed to others who know that to progress ina nything and to obtain goals, even in real life, you have to put in a certain amount of effort.

Also one word:

Impatiance.

[Purrfectstorm]

@Davester:
What other options did/do I have then? I went with one friend - more were either busy or offline. I had a PF up before too and what I think of guides is what I've said above.
I think DF is meant to be used to go in a fight if you can't get a (full) group beforehand. I want to learn that fight but with people leaving fast or not joining at all that's not an easy thing to do.

I like that "wasting other people's time" thing. Imho there are people out there who would consider playing games/MMOs as a waste of time...

By the way, I also think it is a matter of wording too. I accept it when others don't want to play with first timers through DF, but getting nasty about it? Please no.

It might help to think about it another way. Instead of "wasting other people's time" it's "fun" vs. "unfun." Yes, games are a waste of time in one sense, but at least they're fun, right? Unless you have to wait for one person to get their act together with the mechanics. I mean, this is fine, sometimes. But as content becomes dated, more and more people will have experiences where people know what they're doing. Because of these experiences, people will come to expect people to know what they're doing. If they get into a group where someone doesn't know what they're doing, it is really a lot easier to leave, take a penalty, and requeue than to spend an hour hoping the mechanics click for the one person who doesn't know what they're doing.

[Sapphic]

It might help to think about it another way. Instead of "wasting other people's time" it's "fun" vs. "unfun." Yes, games are a waste of time in one sense, but at least they're fun, right? Unless you have to wait for one person to get their act together with the mechanics. I mean, this is fine, sometimes. But as content becomes dated, more and more people will have experiences where people know what they're doing. Because of these experiences, people will come to expect people to know what they're doing. If they get into a group where someone doesn't know what they're doing, it is really a lot easier to leave, take a penalty, and requeue than to spend an hour hoping the mechanics click for the one person who doesn't know what they're doing.

That's the thing, Coris is wanting others to take their situation into consideration without anything in return, which, tbh, is selfish.

Also Coris, how long do you think it took even statics to learn and clear turn 9 from scratch? one complete run? nope. Weeks of running with the exact same players and figuring out, practising and progressing a phase at a time. It takes time and effort to learn going into a brand new fight. Also you cannot get that experience going in with experienced players and expecting to learn it blind as they knowledge of the fight is already there, the experience of clearing it is already there with many, yet not with you. You bring nothing to the party that they wouldnt be better off having someone else who is at least, in theory due to reading guides, at a similar level of knowedge. Note I said knowledge, not experience.

If you want to get the going in blind experience and learning from scratch then you need to find 7 other similar players and take it from there.

[Purrfectstorm]

I just thought of this but SE could do 2 things to reduce conflict between veteran players and new players:

1) Nerf content. If 1 person's lack of knowledge/ability becomes less likely to wipe the raid, veteran players will care less about players having knowledge/ability. Echo helps a lot with DPS checks for example. If a DPS player is dead the whole fight, it's pretty easy to make up for that player with echo stacks. However, that would necessitate mechanical nerfs with things like T9 meteors (where a single bad player can kill everyone). While many veteran players don't like nerfs, speaking for myself, if it's content I've already done a 100 times, it really doesn't matter to me. By the time I've done a fight that many times I'm not there for the challenge.

2) Give veteran players less reason to do old content. The cost of this is that groups will fill up slower for new players, of course, but at least they will consist of people expecting the group to be new. A group that fills up quickly only to disband after 2 wipes is really not helping new players anyway.

[Coris]

For me, the unfun thing starts when the progress stops. Even I get frustrated/annoyed when we or someone die do the very same thing over and over. That happened in 1.x's Dzemael, but still my friends and I would try again after taking a break and considering what went wrong etc. That is also the time when I might check out Youtube. It's the watching a video beforehand thing that is not my type of playing.

The expecting-thing is meh to me. There will always be newbies as people start playing XIV and some of them might have a different playstyle or consider different things fun.

Oh and regarding "taking a penalty": Some don't do that. They rather kill the others x-times, making sure to be annoying, until they get kicked Dx

[Gardes]

I just thought of this but SE could do 2 things to reduce conflict between veteran players and new players:

1) Nerf content. If 1 person's lack of knowledge/ability becomes less likely to wipe the raid, veteran players will care less about players having knowledge/ability. Echo helps a lot with DPS checks for example. If a DPS player is dead the whole fight, it's pretty easy to make up for that player with echo stacks. However, that would necessitate mechanical nerfs with things like T9 meteors (where a single bad player can kill everyone). While many veteran players don't like nerfs, speaking for myself, if it's content I've already done a 100 times, it really doesn't matter to me. By the time I've done a fight that many times I'm not there for the challenge.

2) Give veteran players less reason to do old content. The cost of this is that groups will fill up slower for new players, of course, but at least they will consist of people expecting the group to be new. A group that fills up quickly only to disband after 2 wipes is really not helping new players anyway.

I'd argue that option no1 is not only bad for the players with no clear but it's also bad for players that have cleared it. The contents, while designed separately from each other and require exp and knowledge specific to that content, they do tend to ramp up gradually and reuse older mechanics. Nerfing older fights screws up that curve turning them into a small curve and then abruptly changing into a cliff. Players who keep going through nerfed content will find it harder to break into content at the peak of their relevance when they are seriously trying to catch up and players already tacking the relevant content will have a lower quality of players when they try to recruit for their static to replace members that have to quit. It's much harder to promote yourself as a new comer to the current content over solo current raiders when the gap is huge.

Also, the second option would encourage the solo players needing help to seek out real connections with FC/LS or at the very least re-evaluate what their current FC/LS means to them (and the other way). I say, there really is no point in staying in an fc that is all gigglesquee and throws emotes at you and engages in useless banter with you (and that's it) over another fc is the less noisy but actually interacts with you outside of the chat box and actually does stuff with you.

[Parapluies]

@Davester:
What other options did/do I have then? I went with one friend - more were either busy or offline. I had a PF up before too and what I think of guides is what I've said above.
I think DF is meant to be used to go in a fight if you can't get a (full) group beforehand. I want to learn that fight but with people leaving fast or not joining at all that's not an easy thing to do.

I like that "wasting other people's time" thing. Imho there are people out there who would consider playing games/MMOs as a waste of time...

By the way, I also think it is a matter of wording too. I accept it when others don't want to play with first timers through DF, but getting nasty about it? Please no.

Isnt "My PF didnt fill up" the very evidence that none want to do your way ? Why keep wasting other's time ?

[Coris]

It was supposed to be "die to" x.x

It just seems as the content gets older, there are less people who are at the same point and situation like me. I think to avoid that in 3.0, I should try to start with Alexander right after it opened, even though it encourages some kind of a rush IMO :/

I won't stop trying to learn t9 though. Next time I'll make sure to get as many friends and/or people who are also new to this together and go in again. Even from that first shot I learned a bit ^^"
I just wish people wouldn't get mad the very second they see a new player / the soldiery message / etc. It's okay to be annoyed at some point, but as I said before, it also somehow matters how you express yourself to others. It might scare them off completely.

P.S.:
I wouldn't want a nerf or even ask for one. Remembering that thread about Steps of Faith and I thought it was ridiculous. I've helped some people go through it already and would always do it again.