Square, if youre going to ban Gil buyers, give them a PERMANENT ban

[Radkat]

Would they commit the time and resources into doing so, at the added cost of lower customer satisfaction and the bad way it would look for even the very few innocents caught up with this type of thing?

When gilbuyers are banned, potential gilbuyers afraid to buy, gilsellsers will leave, and all the ad spam will disappear like in the JP servers. Customer satisfaction will in fact improve. That's the whole point!

[ElHeggunte]

When gilbuyers are banned, potential gilbuyers afraid to buy, gilsellsers will leave, and all the ad spam will disappear like in the JP servers. Customer satisfaction will in fact improve. That's the whole point!

Not unless SE proves they have a surefire way to catch the buyers. Harsh laws and rules rarely work as a true deterrent for crimes because people either commit them in the heat of the moment or they're confident that they won't get caught in the first place. The punishment is irrelevant to them. The risk of a permanent ban might cause some people to shy away from buying, but I'm willing to bet that most people that are buying gil right now would continue to buy it even if the punishment was as severe as the police coming to their house and physically arresting them.

[Riepah]

I'm willing to bet that most people that are buying gil right now would continue to buy it even if the punishment was as severe as the police coming to their house and physically arresting them.

And that's fine. Once they incur that punishment, they're off our backs. Good riddance.

[Gilraen]

When gilbuyers are banned, potential gilbuyers afraid to buy, gilsellsers will leave, and all the ad spam will disappear like in the JP servers. Customer satisfaction will in fact improve. That's the whole point!

Actually... that's NOT why RMT have all but abandon the Japanese servers. The Japanese players hate RMT even more than we do and, quite frankly, avoided buying gil from the start. Period. They don't care if it could give them a leg-up on other players because that's not how Japanese players think. Most US players, though... do. They look for the easiest way to get ahead and what's easier than just paying someone to give them gil. And Square IS permanently banning sellers and buyers alike, they just don't publicly shame either. When you can't relate to something you often can't see it ever happening to you, so people keep buying gil thinking Square won't catch them.

Will shaming people who buy gil have an impact on buyers... maybe, but it'd also introduce more toxicity into a community that I think has too much as it is. And Square likely thinks the same with how they haven't mentioned even one name in their counts of banned accounts.

[Radkat]

Snip

Yeah I totally agree with you. JP servers never had an RMT problem because of their community. I'm just pointing out that when there is no demand for RMT like in JP servers, then RMT will be minimal, and ad spam will disappear.

SE does not need to shame anyone! They just need to let everyone know that they are actively targeting gilbuyers with severe punishment. That is enough to deter those who take their characters seriously.

[Gilraen]

SE does not need to shame anyone! They just need to let everyone know that they are actively targeting gilbuyers with severe punishment. That is enough to deter those who take their characters seriously.

But that's just it, Square does let everyone know that they are banning players and erasing gil. Every few months they put out reports on how many accounts they've banned and how much gil they reclaimed. But that's it, it's just numbers. What's so scary about that? "Oh, it was probably just some stupid kid borrowing mom's Discover card." Could never be someone smart enough to know better. This is how shaming would put a real dent in RMT clients, by showing who exactly is buying gil. Giving a 'face' to the numbers. Though I can garauntee most of the time it wouldn't be 'some stupid kid'.

[Radkat]

But that's just it, Square does let everyone know that they are banning players and erasing gil. Every few months they put out reports on how many accounts they've banned and how much gil they reclaimed. But that's it, it's just numbers. What's so scary about that? "Oh, it was probably just some stupid kid borrowing mom's Discover card." Could never be someone smart enough to know better. This is how shaming would put a real dent in RMT clients, by showing who exactly is buying gil. Giving a 'face' to the numbers. Though I can garauntee most of the time it wouldn't be 'some stupid kid'.

The reports have been very vague. 'Participating in RMT activity''. Does that mean gilbuying? Gilselling? Everyone comes up with their own conclusions. And the numbers are small, and the punishment weak. 82 players total? When you realise how many servers there are, you'll understand why I call it a small number. Temp bans won't scare other gilbuyers. It just tells them that if they get caught, they will still be back after the temp ban. It's the perma-bans that make people stop and think.

I don't think naming and shaming does anything. They can just do a name-change, or change servers.

[Lemuria]

I don't think naming and shaming does anything. They can just do a name-change, or change servers.

On the contrary, I think it does quite a bit. Yes, you can change servers and change your name, but you can't change the reputation it gives you. Those who already know you may frown upon those activities, and labeling players makes them visible, a focus. They do what they do because they think it's invisible, that no one can see it. Make it visible, and they're vulnerable and far less likely to repeat the activity.

If they truly wanted to name and shame they could force players to receive a unique icon next to their name. Like the leaf of new players, it could have a skull and crossbones signifying that the player is a gilbuyer. Transfers and name changes wouldn't do a thing to get rid of that, and it would be visible to all. It doesn't need to be permanent. I'd say a month is more than long enough to teach the buyer a lesson or two.

[LineageRazor]

The Japanese players hate RMT even more than we do and, quite frankly, avoided buying gil from the start. Period. They don't care if it could give them a leg-up on other players because that's not how Japanese players think.

Positive stereotyping is still stereotyping. Japanese people are still people, and that means that some of them are better players than others, some of them are less patient than others, some of them are less honest than others. There are Japanese gilbuyers, I guarantee it. They aren't some pack of hive-mind aliens with perfect societal harmony. They are human beings, just like you and me. When you read Japanese literature or watch Japanese television shows or movies, the characters and their motivations are all quite relateable to people outside of their culture. Japanese people don't think as differently from people from other cultures as some folks like to insist. They have plenty of jerks, glory hounds, and trolls to go around, just as other cultures do.

I don't know whether it's actually true that JP servers have less RMT spam than other servers, or whether it's a "grass is greener" thing and people only percieve it to be so, but even if it IS true, I don't think the reasons for it have anything to do with the stereotype of Japanese putting group before self. In fact, even if you buy into the whole "group before self" thing, that's all the more reason to buy gil - if you're failing to properly support your group, it's your obligation to shell out extra money to fix yourself up; not for your own personal glory, but for the good of the group.

There's a tendency among players to idealize Japanese players. It's not healthy, and it's also not accurate.

[AmaiHanakaze]

There are Japanese gilbuyers, I guarantee it. They aren't some pack of hive-mind aliens with perfect societal harmony. They are human beings, just like you and me.

As someone with an alt on a JP server, I'm sure you're 100% correct. If there weren't gilbuyers on Titan, I wouldn't see RMT teleporting around and cheating their way through crap... but I see the level 50 THM bots every day.

I don't know whether it's actually true that JP servers have less RMT spam than other servers...

On Titan, I have never received a single RMT spam tell or seen a shout. I tend to play there 2-3 days a week and I'm a 50 WHM so it's not like I haven't spent any significant time on that server. The situation is far different on Hyperion. Titan is a really small server in comparison though. Even during busy times, it's a fraction of Hyperion's playerbase. Maybe they aren't active there because there isn't a large population to target.

Positive stereotyping is still stereotyping. "the stereotype of Japanese putting group before self."

There's a tendency among players to idealize Japanese players. It's not healthy, and it's also not accurate.

Can get behind this from my experiences too. While I will say a lot of instances (Crystal Tower raids especially) are far, far, far smoother to play through.... some JPs will roll Need on armor for their retainers even if they themselves are decked out in full i130 with i135 max relic... even when you're sitting there in i70 armor trying to improve yourself. It's not a perfect world anywhere.