Possible [spoiler] between Dragons and Garleans?

[Duuude007]

I am correct in guessing this conversation took place in 1.0? Since FFXIV ARR was not launched until the end of August 2012.

This is correct, its just interesting to see most if not all of these NPC-origin rumors to be ringing true.

[Anonymoose]

Seems more likely the original plan was for Shiva to actually have a beast tribe rather than heretics and that plan got canned between 1.0 and now.

Funny you should say that - all signs pointed to the Gigants. When we got to ARR and learned that the three Gigant species came from the North (Abalathia's Spine) and thought Crystal Tower (which looks like ice) was sacred and the last room of Copperbell was The Cold Throne, the first thing I remembered was this conversation with Petyr and I was so sure the Gigas were Shiva's.

[LycorisSelunis]

Well to summon a primal is faith and aether right? What if the dragons have their own version of Shiva to summon? The one we fought was what Iceheart wished for but the dragons could have their own interpretation made manifest my the right ritual. If Shiva was a historical figure they might actually even remember her mortal form. I think it could be a cool story implication if we had two different versions of the same primal- it's already a big deal that Shiva was summoned in the fashion she was.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Ascians were playing both sides in the war in Ishgard, and manipulated a very young dragon that had not the wisdom of his elders into taking their advice on summoning rituals.

[Duuude007]

I think it could be a cool story implication if we had two different versions of the same primal-

I see where you are going with this, but for simplicity's sake I find that unlikely.

When a primal is created, it tends to take a very specific form, likely because the former aether of the original being took that form. Not because someone misprinted that Enkidu was blue and thus can be summoned blue. Think ff7 lifestream.

The story behind Louisoix/phoenix, I believe, is very similar (in end result) to that of Shiva. He became the new host for the long-forgotten being, Phoenix.

[Aoxaviar]

With the thoughts of the Gigants, I would lean more to them summoning something like Kiajai (FFVII) since they seem to based/placed in various earthly locations. Also following migration, they may have been born up in the far north, but headed towards Mor Dhona, Corethas, and even Thanalan looking for food/shelter/homelands due to whatever happened up there (Garlean invasion/slavery perhaps...)

With this thought in mind, and with Yoshi-P mentioned about the dragon beast tribe my mind doesn't to towards Shiva on this one. I get why most of you are going there, Shiva - THE ICE PRIMAL/SUMMONS/GF...of the Franchise.

My mind however heads to the gorge below the bridge between Whitebirm Front and Stone Vigil where a small, dead, snow white dragon lies. Also, based on video provided by SE, Bismark may be a Dragon, but he is white.

The aspect of "Icy" may just be a personality trait, not the basis of their primal's power.

[Duuude007]

The aspect of "Icy" may just be a personality trait, not the basis of their primal's power.

The demeanor is referencing the beastkin, not the primal, in the text provided.

Also, the text merely says shiva would make sense as being associated, given the state of the weather "up north".

Lastly, Bismarck has always been represented as an aquatic being, usually a whale, but whether it "swam" or "flew" has not always been clear from title to title...(ex: the whale airship in FF4). At least in the context of Eorzea, we know many skyfish exist, so logic suggests beasts even more massive could fly, with clouds between their knees. (sorry, superman tangent)

[Anonymoose]

The story behind Louisoix/phoenix, I believe, is very similar (in end result) to that of Shiva. He became the new host for the long-forgotten being, Phoenix.

Could that be, do you think? My original interpretation was that the story was putting emphasis on Ysayle's Echo being responsible for her candidacy as a vessel for a primal, and on Louisoix somehow just becoming one. Louisoix didn't have the Echo, as far as we know, and Ysayle was free to walk away relatively unscathed after Shiva was forced to withdraw. I wouldn't call it a illogical leap, by any means, but (so far) it feels (to me) like more separation than overlap between Shiva and Phoenix.

[Duuude007]

Could that be, do you think? My original interpretation was that the story was putting emphasis on Ysayle's Echo being responsible for her candidacy as a vessel for a primal, and on Louisoix somehow just becoming one. Louisoix didn't have the Echo, as far as we know, and Ysayle was free to walk away relatively unscathed after Shiva was forced to withdraw. I wouldn't call it a illogical leap, by any means, but (so far) it feels (to me) like more separation than overlap between Shiva and Phoenix.

The difference i see is that she mainained her free will even when she freely gave over her body. Louisoix was enthralled as the prayers/aether of eorzea were concentrated within Louisoix, and presumeably the 'Phoenix' existed in Bahamut's memories as a desparate means to an end- a way he can be restored.

A confluence of events I know, but again, after either entity was defeated, they returned to their former humanoid bodies.

Edit: holy cow, this topic went on a wierd tangent, lol.

[treuhavik]

The difference i see is that she mainained her free will even when she freely gave over her body. Louisoix was enthralled as the prayers/aether of eorzea were concentrated within Louisoix, and presumeably the 'Phoenix' existed in Bahamut's memories as a desparate means to an end- a way he can be restored.

Louisoux became Phoenix before defeating Bahamut and was enthralled by the dying Primal as he attempted to return the borrowed aether, along with his own, to the land. So, while Louisoux was infused with the power of a primal, he had full control of himself for as long as he intended to live.

No, the only difference between the two is the wording used. Iceheart was "host to" and Louisoux "became" a primal. Also, Louisoux's summoning ended in his death (or would have, had he not been snatched by Bahamut). Other than those two points, each of these events appear no different.