Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[Zaft]

There is a huge difference between calling people out ala "OMG U SUCK WHM DID MORE DPS THAN U!" and trying to be constructive with "Bill, I see your DPS is a little bit lower than what it should be. Can you explain to me the rotation you're using for this fight and maybe we can sort out what's wrong. Better yet, after this fight let's go to a striking dummy and I can gauge your performance there and help you correct it." The former is EXACTLY why parses are frowned upon.

Except that it's not OUR job to fix YOUR DPS. That's your responsibility and nobody else. Now I agree that you shouldn't be a dick, but if your DPS sucks, I'm entirely in my right to say "Your DPS is lacking" and kick you.

[Devils_Lawyer]

Except that it's not OUR job to fix YOUR DPS. That's your responsibility and nobody else. Now I agree that you shouldn't be a dick, but if your DPS sucks, I'm entirely in my right to say "Your DPS is lacking" and kick you.

Funny how you say people shouldnt be dicks but telling a dps their damage output is bad and then kick them is perfectly fine.

[MrBracTJones]

Funny how you say people shouldnt be dicks but telling a dps their damage output is bad and then kick them is perfectly fine.

What he means we shouldn't have to go as far as to hand hold someone on how to dps right. Its one thing to help with fights mechanics.

[Zaft]

Funny how you say people shouldnt be dicks but telling a dps their damage output is bad and then kick them is perfectly fine.

Yes, that is perfectly fine. Let's say you apply for a job as a Cisco router and switch technician. When you show up to the job, you have absolutely no idea how to use Cisco IOS, nor how to configure a switch or router. Do you think you're going to get or keep that job? Absolutely not. It is not their job to teach you, it is YOUR job to take time and teach yourself.

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

[LunaHoshino]

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

I once had a T9 group where the other DPS were all in solid Ironworks gear and yet we were getting five meteors and two green golems. I eventually ended up just leaving because nothing I could do was going to help them-- the problem wasn't with mechanics, it was that they didn't have the first clue how to play their jobs.

[Devils_Lawyer]

snip

Yes lets compare real life jobs (where your performance makes the owner money) to video games, that always works.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, telling someone they suck then kick them may serve the purpose of getting them out of your sight and content but dont pretend it dosnt make you look like a dick in the process.

Explaining to them they need to work on their rotations in a friendly manor might make them more motivated to actually try harder instead of getting shot down just cause they arnt experts at their class.

[CGMidlander]

Yes lets compare real life jobs (where your performance makes the owner money) to video games, that always works.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, telling someone they suck then kick them may serve the purpose of getting them out of your sight and content but dont pretend it dosnt make you look like a dick in the process.

Explaining to them they need to work on their rotations in a friendly manor might make them more motivated to actually try harder instead of getting shot down just cause they arnt experts at their class.

You can White Knight all you want, but the fact is the person is still inept for the instance at hand and should be replaced so as to not waste the other 7 people's time.

[SDaemon]

Yes, that is perfectly fine. Let's say you apply for a job as a Cisco router and switch technician. When you show up to the job, you have absolutely no idea how to use Cisco IOS, nor how to configure a switch or router. Do you think you're going to get or keep that job? Absolutely not. It is not their job to teach you, it is YOUR job to take time and teach yourself.

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

White Knight

This word has come to be used so far beyond its meaning it's rather sad.

[Anneliese]

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

Actually, if it's his PF group or raid group and he is the leader, he has every right to kick someone from it, without obligation to give a reason for it.

Don't believe me? Try reporting someone for kicking you from their static or pre-formed party and tell us how that goes.

[SDaemon]

Actually, if it's his PF group or raid group and he is the leader, he has every right to kick someone from it, without obligation to give a reason for it.

Don't believe me? Try reporting someone for kicking you from their static or pre-formed party and tell us how that goes.

You can form a full group, smile and disband it without care. If this is a full-premade w/ him as lead than yes, he can kick whoever he pleases at anytime. Doing so is a good way to get on blacklists, but considering his opinion of the player he'd kick I doubt it troubles his mind. What I wrote was in regards to DF and the abuse of parsers in regards to his flawed logic of using a real life job comparison.

Well actually, if they put up a Party Finder that's exactly what they are to be honest.

If a party finder has a set of specific conditions (Greed pick 2 items) or a set goal (Learning / Clear) or requires knowledge up to a certain phase etc it's expected that anyone joining that party is able to perform up to those conditions, that means being able to tank / heal / DPS said instance.

If a member's performance is not up to par and is to the detriment of the group the PF leader has every right to dismiss the person from the party.

Actually it isn't. You really can't tell the difference between a real life business with a boss and employees and a PF party?